Yelena McElwain: The 10-Year Retiree

June 12, 2026

Guest: Yelena McElwain
Career: Retired Data Analyst
Based: Nomadic
Instagram: @meditationcompass
Website: www.meditation-compass.com

Episode Description
Yelena McElwain discovered FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) at 25 when she read Tim Ferriss's "The Four Hour Workweek." But she didn't want to start a business like Ferriss did. Instead, she kept working as a data analyst, saved intentionally, and hit her financial independence number in ten years. Not because she was aiming for exactly ten years, but because she had a concrete target based on her spending: roughly 200 times her monthly expenses, or 25 times her annual spending. When the 4% rule is working in your favour, that's your ticket out.

She didn't quit immediately when she hit her number. She continued working for another 3-4 years while projects started shifting in directions she didn't want to go. Then she left, travelled full-time for three years, settled in Denver for another three, and now she dives on shipwrecks, practises yoga, and teaches meditation. She teaches Instinctive Meditation, a practice rooted in The Radiance Sutras, honouring individual nature rather than forcing rigid techniques.

Here's the twist that breaks all the assumptions about early retirement: she spends less now than when she was working. Her childhood in 1990s Russia taught her frugality, her Russian parents prepared her to always be ready, and that foundation made saving as natural as breathing. This is not a story about luck. It's a spreadsheet equation anyone can solve if they treat freedom as a number rather than a fantasy.

Timestamps

00:00-00:37 Introduction

00:37-01:05 Ibi's intro of Yelena, FIRE formula explanation

01:05-01:34 The 4% rule, ten-year journey, diving and meditation

01:34-01:45 Conversation beginning

01:45-02:00 How long nomadic, six years almost

02:00-03:00 Three years full-time nomad, three years half-time

03:00-03:30 Quit job whilst full-time nomading, got tired of travel, moved to Denver

03:30-04:30 Countries visited, Mexico, Colombia, Vietnam, Bali

04:30-05:45 Average 10-12 countries per year, one month each

05:45-06:24 Dive master training, diving on shipwrecks

06:24-07:21 Discovered FIRE at 25, Tim Ferriss "Four Hour Workweek"

07:21-08:00 FIRE wasn't earth-shattering initially, unsure if it was for her

08:00-08:40 Tim Ferriss business path versus saving path

08:40-09:50 Data analysis career, studied economics

09:50-10:15 Data science explosion, right place right time

10:15-11:00 FIRE inspiration, saving mentality, not becoming big spender

11:00-12:00 Russian childhood foundation, frugality mindset

12:00-13:00 Set monetary target based on spending

13:00-14:30 The 4% rule explained, 200 times monthly spending

14:30-15:30 Portfolio growth assumptions, inflation adjustments

15:30-16:30 Real estate versus stock market investments

16:30-17:30 Ten-year saving journey, reaching financial independence goal

17:30-18:30 Continued working 3-4 years after hitting number

18:30-19:30 Projects not going in desired direction, decision to quit

19:30-20:30 Travelling whilst still working, remote work flexibility

20:30-21:30 First month or two identity crisis after retiring

21:30-22:30 "Who am I?" question, fear and confusion alongside excitement

22:30-23:30 Importance of hobbies and interests before retirement

23:30-24:30 Spending less in retirement than when working

24:30-25:30 Slower travel, volunteering, dive master training

25:30-26:30 Under-spending target provides more security

26:30-27:30 Travel still main passion

27:30-28:30 Teaching meditation to digital nomads and nomad community

28:30-29:30 Instinctive Meditation practice, The Radiance Sutras, Dr. Lorin Roche

29:30-30:30 Two passions going forward, yoga and meditation, travel

30:30-31:30 What to do when grown up, following passions unclear but clear

31:30-32:17 Closing remarks

About This Podcast
Real conversations with successful digital nomads who've built sustainable location-independent income. Strategic insights on how they transitioned, what income streams they built, and what they wish they'd known earlier. No travel tips or lifestyle fluff.

Host
Ibi Malik helps ambitious professionals transition to nomadic careers without income sacrifice.

To watch the video follow this link: https://youtu.be/1RPghL9albQ

Follow for weekly episodes featuring professionals who've successfully built nomadic income streams.

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**Learn More About Yelena's Work**

Yelena teaches **Instinctive Meditation**, a practice that honours your individual nature rather than forcing you into one rigid technique. Rather than fighting your thoughts or restlessness, you learn to work with your body's own meditative instincts, so practice becomes nourishing and sustainable. The work is rooted in **The Radiance Sutras**, Dr. Lorin Roche's version of an ancient tantric text offering 112 doorways into meditation through breath, the senses, and everyday experience.

- Instagram: @meditationcompass

- Website: www.meditation-compass.com

- Learn about Instinctive Meditation: https://www.meditation-compass.com/what-is-instinctive-meditation

- Blog: https://www.meditation-compass.com/blog

- Newsletter signup available on the main page

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Episode length: ~32 minutes
Published: 12th June 2026
Episode #15

The 10-Year Retiree Who Achieved Financial Freedom Through Patience

Today I had the honour of sitting down with one of the youngest retirees I've ever met. As soon as I heard a glimpse of her story, I knew this was something the listeners needed to hear. Sitting in the usual French chateau, I got ready to take some notes and listen to Yelena's success.

Yelena McElwain doesn't have to work anymore. Not because she won the lottery or inherited money or sold a startup. Because she spent ten years saving intentionally and now lives off passive income from investments. She's financially free, spends her time diving, practising yoga, teaching meditation, and travelling without checking her bank account nervously.

She's in what most people would call the prime working years of their career. The years when you're supposed to be climbing the ladder, chasing promotions, building your CV. Instead, she's done. She hit her number, quit her job, and stepped off the treadmill entirely.

When I ask her how it feels, she says simply, "Good."

That's Yelena. Calm. Measured. No dramatic story about burnout or escaping the corporate hellscape. Just a quiet, methodical approach to building freedom, and then actually using it.

The Book That Started Everything

It began with a book. She was about 25, already working her second job in data analysis, fairly established in her career. Someone recommended Tim Ferriss's "The Four Hour Workweek," and she read it with interest but not earth-shattering revelation.

"When I first learned about it, it wasn't like an earth shattering thing, like because I wasn't sure that I could do it. Like I wasn't sure that it was for me."

Ferriss focuses on starting your own business to achieve what's now called FIRE: Financial Independence, Retire Early. Build something, automate it, work four hours a week maintaining it, spend the rest on whatever you want. That path didn't appeal to Yelena. She wasn't interested in starting a business or doing what Ferriss did.

But as she kept reading, kept discovering blogs and posts about different pathways to the same goal, she realised something crucial. You don't need to be an entrepreneur. You can work a normal job, focus on the saving side rather than the business creation side, and still get there.

"I kind of began to realize that maybe this is something that I'm interested in."

The acronym FIRE came later, but the concept was already forming. Save aggressively. Invest wisely. Build passive income. Eventually reach a point where you don't need to work anymore. It wasn't a lightning bolt moment. It was a slow realisation that this might actually be possible for her.

The Russian Foundation

Saving came naturally to Yelena. Not because she was born disciplined, but because of how she grew up.

She lived in Russia until she was ten. The 1990s. Economic collapses, political instability, uncertainty everywhere. Her family never had much money, and there was always this underlying idea of being prepared for whatever comes next.

"I grew up in Russia until I was ten. And so yeah, we never had a lot of money. I think there was always like this idea of like being ready for whatever comes."

Her parents taught her to be frugal. Not miserly, but simply not living paycheque to paycheque. Spending less than you earn. Having that security. When she started working after university, she just continued that pattern.

When she discovered FIRE at 25, she didn't need to overhaul her lifestyle. She was already on that path. The book just gave her a framework and a target.

Right Place, Right Time

The other piece of luck: she studied economics, started working in data analysis right after university, and happened to enter the field just as it exploded.

Data science didn't really exist as a formal field when she started. It was just emerging. And then over the next decade, it became one of the most in-demand technical specialities in the world. Shortage of qualified people, companies desperate to hire, salaries climbing.

"It was kind of a good time to start in data analysis work. And then it became bigger and bigger and bigger. And so yeah, I was able to have quite a nice career."

I asked her if she planned this, if she knew going into it that data science would explode. "No, no, no. I went into it just because I liked it. And that was a job that I found. I liked solving problems. I liked kind of some of the coding. I like to build it into reports and I enjoyed it. So I stuck with it and then it kind of, yeah, exploded. And I was in the right place at the right time."

She didn't plan this. She went into data analysis because she enjoyed the work. The fact that it also paid higher than normal was a bonus she didn't anticipate. But her point is clear:

"I think anyone can do fire. I think it's more a matter of setting the goal and, you know, creating that kind of saving potential. So spending less than you earn."

The 10-Year Plan

Once she had the target and the framework, it was straightforward. Not easy, but straightforward.

The FIRE target is based on your spending, not your age. It's called the 4% rule. You need roughly 25 times your annual spending saved and invested. Or put another way, 200 times your monthly spending. Because you can withdraw 4% per year whilst the portfolio continues growing at 6-7% (the historical stock market average), leaving 2-3% to cover inflation.

Yelena set her target based on her spending, then just started saving as much as she comfortably could. She wasn't trying to hit retirement in exactly ten years. She had a monetary goal and figured she'd get there whenever she got there. She tracked her total net worth using apps like Mint that connect to all your accounts and show you the full picture.

"My goal was not ten years. I had a monetary goal and then I was just, you know, going to get there at some point. So I was just, you know, saving as much as I comfortably could."

Ten years later, she hit the number.

Travelling Whilst Working

She didn't retire immediately when she reached her goal. That's an important detail most people miss.

She started travelling first. For three years, she was a full-time nomad whilst working a full-time job. By that point, she had the financial cushion to take risks with her career. She could focus on what she actually wanted to do, even if it might compromise her professional trajectory. She travelled to 10-12 countries a year whilst maintaining her job, averaging about a month in each place.

Mexico. Colombia. Vietnam. Bali. Nicaragua, where she spent four or five months doing her dive master training on Little Corn Island. The Philippines. Sri Lanka, diving on shipwrecks. Remote work made it possible to have both the income and the lifestyle.

"I was able to kind of focus okay. Like I really want to travel, I'm going to do this even if it may be like compromises my career eventually. But I was still able to work remotely, which was helpful."

Then she quit her job whilst still travelling full-time. Her projects at work weren't going in the direction she wanted anymore, and she had the security to walk away. After that, she got tired of full-time travel and decided to spend half her time at a home base in Denver, half travelling. The last three years have been that split, giving her both rootedness and adventure.

The Identity Crisis

You'd think retiring early would be pure relief. Freedom. Excitement. And there is that. But there's also something else that hits about a month or two in.

"When I first retired, like maybe a month or two in there is kind of like an identity shift. Like I was like, oh, I'm no longer a data scientist. I'm not even a digital nomad because I'm not, like, digitally making money. More like, who am I? What am I like? What am I going to do with my life?"

"I think there was both. Yes, excitement, but also kind of fear and confusion."

This is why she emphasises having hobbies and interests already in place before you retire. You need somewhere to channel your energy when work disappears. Otherwise, you're floating, untethered, asking yourself what you're doing with your life even though you've achieved the goal millions dream about.

The Spending Paradox

Before retiring, Yelena worried her spending would increase. It made logical sense. If you have all this free time and nothing to do, surely you'll spend more to entertain yourself? Fill the hours that used to be occupied by work with activities, hobbies, purchases?

The opposite happened.

"I actually found the opposite. Like I was able to spend less and I'm able to spend less now that I'm retired."

Slower travel. Longer stays. Volunteering. Activities that take time rather than money. The dive master training in Nicaragua, something she never would have had time for whilst working, occupied her for months. She's focusing on things that are meaningful rather than things that are quick.

She's currently under-spending her target, which provides more security. The portfolio can grow. If there's a year with unexpected expenses, she's prepared. That childhood lesson from Russia, always being ready for whatever comes, still applies.

What She Does Now

Travel is still the main thing. Always was a passion. Being able to do it without worrying about deadlines and meetings is exactly what she wanted. But she's also building something else: teaching meditation.

She offers a free weekly class, currently for friends but growing to include other travellers and digital nomads. It's not about building a business or monetising a skill. It's about sharing something she believes helps people, especially nomads who are constantly moving, constantly ungrounded.

"I think it's important for digital nomads because it just kind of helps ground, helps kind of relieve some of that energy that I feel like is very unbound because we're traveling so much, because we're kind of constantly moving around."

Yoga. Meditation. Travel. Those are the two main passions, and that's what she wants to continue doing. Spending time with friends and family, old and new. Building a life around what actually matters instead of what pays.

When I frame it in terms of time, the years she has ahead of her now that she's financially free, she acknowledges it's exciting but also unclear.

"I think partially I ask myself that as well. What am I going to do when I grow up? And it's not always clear, but I think following these two passions is kind of the path."

The Path Forward

Ten years. That's what it took. Not a lifetime of grinding. Not waiting until 65. Ten years of intentional saving, living below her means, investing wisely, and then stepping off when she hit her number.

Yelena didn't invent this approach. "I feel like I am lucky to have kind of figured out that this is possible, that this is something that people do and kind of read about how people do it. But I didn't invent this. Like I just learned from others."

The information is out there. Blogs. Books. Communities of people who've documented the process. The 4% rule. The importance of tracking your spending. How to calculate your target. The framework is available to anyone willing to learn it.

She's teaching meditation now, helping nomads feel grounded. She's diving, practising yoga, exploring countries at her own pace, living without the pressure of monetising every moment. She's under-spending her target, building security, preparing for whatever comes.

Ten years of patience. A lifetime of freedom. That's the trade she made.

Yelena McElwain achieved financial independence through intentional saving over ten years and now teaches meditation whilst travelling the world. You can hear her full story about the 4% rule, the identity shift after retiring, and why she spends less now than when she was working in.

Digital nomads and location-independent professionals featured on Ibi's Digital Nomad Stories podcast share insights into building sustainable remote careers. Listen to all episodes: www.ibimalik.com/podcasts/ibis-digital-nomad-stories

Episode Transcript

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:37:03
Ibi
Hello and welcome to IV's Digital Nomad Stories, featuring real conversations with professionals who have cracked the code to sustainable, nomadic lifestyles. These people aren't beach and Wi-Fi chasers. They're building competitive advantages that traditional employment could never match. Global mobility, income diversification, and the freedom to capitalize on opportunities anywhere. I'm Abby Malik, your favorite digital nomad consultant, and today I'm joined on the show by Jelena McElwain, someone who proved that early retirement is not a lottery win.

00:00:37:03 - 00:01:05:00
Ibi
It's a formula. She did fire financial independence, retire early, and the maths of this philosophy is almost insultingly simple. Save 25 times your annual spending and then withdraw up to 4% a year while that portfolio keeps growing. Yelena just set her number, saved as much as she comfortably could, and then ten years later, she hit the number she wasn't even aiming for ten years.

00:01:05:00 - 00:01:34:09
Ibi
She had a goal, not a time based deadline. She hit it and now she is financially free. Diving the shipwrecks and teaching meditation. And here's the twist. She spends less retired than she did while working. This is a masterclass application of the fire formula. When you treat freedom as a number rather than a fantasy, retiring decades early becomes a spreadsheet equation that you can actually solve.

00:01:34:13 - 00:01:45:12
Ibi
Let's hear it from someone who's done it. Here's Yelena. Do you want to just talk about fire? Do you want to talk about other stuff too? How long have you been a nomad?

00:01:45:14 - 00:01:48:11
Yelena
Six years. Almost.

00:01:48:13 - 00:01:49:12
Ibi
That's a long time.

00:01:49:13 - 00:01:55:18
Yelena
Yeah. Three years full time and three years half time. Wow.

00:01:55:20 - 00:02:02:04
Ibi
And the three years. Half time came before the three years full time. Or they came after the three years full time.

00:02:02:05 - 00:02:03:16
Yelena
After the three years full time.

00:02:03:17 - 00:02:11:21
Ibi
Oh, so you went three years fully Nomad, and then you went half time Nomad? Yeah. Therefore, you got a job?

00:02:11:23 - 00:02:17:10
Yelena
No, I actually had a job when I was full time Nomad.

00:02:17:12 - 00:02:27:23
Ibi
I understand. No. Okay. So when you're a full time nomad, you had a full time job, and then when you were half time nomad, you didn't have a job, or you did have a job?

00:02:28:02 - 00:02:51:16
Yelena
I didn't. Yeah. Those things kind of coincided, but they weren't like it wasn't a cause and effect. It was just I quit my job when I was still a full time nomad, but then I kind of got tired of traveling full time, so I decided to spend half time at home.

00:02:51:17 - 00:02:52:21
Ibi
Where did you go? Where did you.

00:02:52:21 - 00:02:54:02
Yelena
Visit to? Denver.

00:02:54:04 - 00:02:55:17
Ibi
No. No, no. When you were a nomad.

00:02:55:18 - 00:02:59:15
Yelena
Oh.

00:02:59:17 - 00:03:06:18
Yelena
A lot of the common places. Mexico? Yes. But briefly.

00:03:06:20 - 00:03:08:09

Oh, no.

00:03:08:11 - 00:03:15:12
Ibi
You know, I'm getting concerned, though. That's the whole French thing. There's the whole anti camera and now there's buddy.

00:03:15:14 - 00:03:16:06

Yeah.

00:03:16:11 - 00:03:17:23
Ibi
That was buddy.

00:03:18:00 - 00:03:19:21
Yelena
Oh Bali was busy.

00:03:19:22 - 00:03:26:12
Ibi
But did you go to a waterfall and do some special meditative yoga that turned you into a superhero?

00:03:26:13 - 00:03:27:03
Yelena
No.

00:03:27:09 - 00:03:34:06
Ibi
I've, I've had many things about this meditative yoga. Only there's one waterfall they all go to. Did you hear about it?

00:03:34:07 - 00:03:42:12
Yelena
No, I didn't actually. Well, I did some yoga in Bali, but not anything weird. Surprisingly.

00:03:42:12 - 00:03:47:11
Ibi
It's a good idea. Good idea. There's some weird people, though.

00:03:47:13 - 00:03:57:08
Yelena
I mean, it was a it was a nice place, but. Yeah. Very busy. Lots of nomads.

00:03:57:10 - 00:04:01:22
Ibi
Okay, so that was body. That was Vietnam, you said.

00:04:02:00 - 00:04:02:23
Yelena
Yeah.

00:04:03:00 - 00:04:04:13
Ibi
Well.

00:04:04:15 - 00:04:10:03
Yelena
I mean, there was probably 20 or 30 countries. Mexico, Colombia.

00:04:10:05 - 00:04:14:09
Ibi
Wait. In two years. Three years.

00:04:14:11 - 00:04:27:23
Yelena
I guess I'm thinking of the whole six years. Yeah, probably when I was full time traveling, I probably averaged 10 to 12 countries a year and.

00:04:28:00 - 00:04:29:14
Ibi
A month.

00:04:29:16 - 00:04:32:08
Yelena
Yeah, approximately.

00:04:32:10 - 00:04:37:08
Ibi
As long as you ever spent in a place.

00:04:37:10 - 00:04:40:00
Yelena
4 or 5 months.

00:04:40:01 - 00:04:41:17
Ibi
Well, that's a long time.

00:04:41:18 - 00:04:43:17
Yelena
Yeah. In Nicaragua.

00:04:43:19 - 00:04:48:16
Ibi
Why do people go? Even Miranda said she was in Nicaragua all the time.

00:04:48:18 - 00:04:55:03
Yelena
I mean, I went to Little Corn Island and I did my dive master training there. So that was.

00:04:55:05 - 00:04:56:03
Ibi
You're a dive master?

00:04:56:04 - 00:05:07:01
Yelena
Yes. So that occupied me for about three and a half months. And then I traveled around Nicaragua on the mainland for about a month.

00:05:07:03 - 00:05:15:20
Ibi
Did you ever, like, dive on a shipwreck? Yeah.

00:05:15:22 - 00:05:20:01
Yelena
Actually, in Sri Lanka, most recently, I did a couple of shipwrecks.

00:05:20:03 - 00:05:21:08
Ibi
A couple of shipwrecks.

00:05:21:10 - 00:05:23:05
Yelena
Also in the Philippines.

00:05:23:10 - 00:05:44:06
Ibi
Like you go to a couple of bars. I went to a couple of shipwrecks. Yeah, that's the way it goes. You know, there was also one lady that came on the podcast. L. And she was an underwater archeologist. She was go down to the shipwrecks and investigate them. I feel like I'm missing out on so many things.

00:05:44:07 - 00:05:52:05
Yelena
I think so. I mean, that would be really fun to be an archeologist underwater. Maybe next life.

00:05:52:11 - 00:05:53:15

Oh.

00:05:53:17 - 00:05:56:03
Ibi
Can you do you need the qualification to be an archeologist?

00:05:56:04 - 00:06:00:14
Yelena
Probably. Like probably PhD.

00:06:00:16 - 00:06:05:02
Ibi
Do you need a qualification to become a philanthropist?

00:06:05:04 - 00:06:08:22
Yelena
Unclear.

00:06:09:00 - 00:06:14:15
Ibi
And are you now self-proclaimed retired?

00:06:14:17 - 00:06:17:11
Yelena
Yes.

00:06:17:13 - 00:06:24:00
Ibi
How? When? Where?

00:06:24:01 - 00:06:36:06
Yelena
I mean, I found out about the idea of fire financial independence. Retire early when I was about 25, I think. Probably starting.

00:06:36:08 - 00:06:37:13
Ibi
How did you find out?

00:06:37:14 - 00:06:41:12
Yelena
Yeah, I think starting with Tim Ferriss four hour workweek.

00:06:41:14 - 00:06:42:22
Ibi
Did you read it in Bali?

00:06:43:00 - 00:06:44:02
Yelena
No.

00:06:44:04 - 00:06:44:14

Okay.

00:06:44:15 - 00:06:45:21
Yelena
I was not yet traveling.

00:06:45:22 - 00:06:47:01
Ibi
You're not yet traveling, okay.

00:06:47:02 - 00:07:21:13
Yelena
Yeah. But that. You know, I thought that was a really interesting idea. And then I read some blogs and other posts about it and just got interested. You know, I was already saving, so I just continued kind of saving and trying to not be a big spender. Yeah. And eventually I reached kind of that goal that I set out for myself and didn't quit right away.

00:07:21:14 - 00:07:39:04
Yelena
Actually, I continued working for probably about 3 or 4 years, but my kind of projects started changing and not going in the way that I wanted and so decided to quit.

00:07:39:06 - 00:07:51:08
Ibi
So at 25, where you own your first job, or were you not started working yet, or were you established in your career?

00:07:51:10 - 00:07:59:16
Yelena
I was on my second job and I was already, I would say, yeah, fairly established in my career.

00:07:59:18 - 00:08:02:02
Ibi
Okay. So you'd been working for a bit?

00:08:02:05 - 00:08:05:21
Yelena
Yeah, I was started working right after college.

00:08:05:22 - 00:08:07:07
Ibi
And what kind of. What were you doing?

00:08:07:08 - 00:08:08:09
Yelena
Data analysis.

00:08:08:09 - 00:08:16:01
Ibi
Data analysis. Okay. And did you go, like a traditional data analysis path, like studying Daito math or something?

00:08:16:07 - 00:08:19:00

I studied economics. Solid.

00:08:19:01 - 00:08:25:17
Yelena
So data science didn't really exist as a field yet.

00:08:25:19 - 00:08:40:14
Yelena
So it was kind of a good time to start in data analysis work. And then it became bigger and bigger and bigger. And so yeah, I was able to have quite a nice career.

00:08:40:16 - 00:08:50:21
Ibi
Interesting. Okay. Okay. So you studied the economics, then you went straight into data analysis. Yeah. And then you heard about this thing.

00:08:50:23 - 00:08:52:22

Yeah. Yeah.

00:08:53:00 - 00:08:57:04
Ibi
What kind of impact did it have on you?

00:08:57:06 - 00:09:10:04
Yelena
I think it just inspired me to kind of save what I was earning. Did not. Not become a big spender. Not like by a fancy car.

00:09:10:06 - 00:09:24:06
Ibi
I'm trying to understand whether it was, like a penny drop moment where the glass shatters and you're like, oh my God, this is a thing. Or whether it was like a oh yeah, that's the thing that people do or just do that. That's what I'm trying to work at.

00:09:24:08 - 00:09:50:14
Yelena
I think when I first learned about it, it wasn't like an earth shattering thing, like because I wasn't sure that I could do it. Like I wasn't sure that was for me. And the four hour workweek is more about starting your own business to reach fire. And so I wasn't really wanting to start my own business and, like, do what Tim Ferriss did.

00:09:50:16 - 00:10:15:00
Yelena
But I think as I kept learning more about it and finding out the different pathways that you can actually use to achieve it. Like even working a normal job and just focusing on the kind of the saving versus the business creation aspect, I kind of began to realize that maybe I this is something that I'm interested in.

00:10:15:01 - 00:10:19:09
Ibi
Does Mr.. Tim talk about fire in the for our work week?

00:10:19:11 - 00:10:19:19

00:10:19:21 - 00:10:46:12
Yelena
Not directly. I think fire kind of came after like at least the acronym, but he talks about, you know, creating something where you don't have to work anymore. He focuses more on creating a business that would provide the passive income, that you can only work literally four hours a week just to maintain it, but spend the rest on whatever you want.

00:10:46:14 - 00:10:49:17
Ibi
How do you feel about passive income?

00:10:49:19 - 00:10:51:23
Yelena
I like it.

00:10:52:00 - 00:10:54:02

Why?

00:10:54:04 - 00:11:21:00
Yelena
Because then you can retire. I mean, I think your passive income can come from different sources, like investments or business. But yeah, once you can create something that generates it, then you don't have to be attached to your computer or your job. You can focus on your hobbies and your interests.

00:11:21:01 - 00:11:50:00
Ibi
Interesting. That was a guest on the podcast who was talking about passive income. We had some interesting conversation about it because it wasn't just passive income from the sense that it's just money that comes in regularly. But he was basically talking about active, actively managed passive income. So like for example, an online course will go out of date in a few months, years, years.

00:11:50:02 - 00:12:15:23
Ibi
So it is passive but not infinitely passive. But then there's other things like real estate ETFs that code those kind of investments that could really be passive for a very extended period of time. And so when you mentioned the four hour workweek, that there was two parts is one of the parts, what I'm referring to as the actively managed passive income.

00:12:15:23 - 00:12:25:04
Ibi
And the other one is like fully passive, like the business versus investments. Is that is that the theory?

00:12:25:06 - 00:12:46:07
Yelena
I think Tim Ferriss more focuses on maybe the somewhat actively passive, because it's like at least at that point, his kind of idea was to start a business. So you are still actively managing it, at least somewhat.

00:12:46:09 - 00:12:58:20
Yelena
But I think eventually you can move, start moving some of that money into then completely passive investments like stocks and real estate.

00:12:58:22 - 00:13:00:04
Ibi
Stocks and real estate.

00:13:00:05 - 00:13:03:16

That's good. For example. Yeah.

00:13:03:18 - 00:13:07:18
Ibi
I like stocks and real estate. I don't have any real.

00:13:07:18 - 00:13:09:10

Estate.

00:13:09:12 - 00:13:16:14
Ibi
Never owned a house. I don't think I would. But okay.

00:13:16:15 - 00:13:17:21

So.

00:13:17:23 - 00:13:37:10
Ibi
So you heard about this at 25. You thought, I'm not going to go down the business path. And so did you immediately start down the other path of saving?

00:13:37:12 - 00:13:41:17
Yelena
I think I was already on the path of saving like that kind of.

00:13:41:19 - 00:13:43:16

Just good habits or what? I think.

00:13:43:16 - 00:13:47:11
Yelena
So, yeah. Like.

00:13:47:13 - 00:14:13:18
Yelena
It just being frugal is just, I think something that my parents taught me. And so I was yeah, pretty good about kind of saving what I could and not kind of spending living paycheck to paycheck. I kind of liked having that cushion in case something happens or I guess eventually for retirement even, you know.

00:14:13:18 - 00:14:18:11

It's very financially wise. Yeah.

00:14:18:13 - 00:14:20:18
Ibi
Right from the beginning.

00:14:20:20 - 00:14:49:06
Yelena
I think. So. Like, yeah, I grew up in Russia until I was ten. And so yeah, we never had a lot of money. I think there was always like this idea of like being ready for whatever comes. And I mean, a lot of things were possible in Russia in the 90s, like canonical collapses and, you know, political instability.

00:14:49:06 - 00:14:55:20
Yelena
So there was always this idea of like being prepared.

00:14:55:22 - 00:14:58:06
Ibi
I totally forgot that you were part Russian.

00:14:58:07 - 00:14:58:23

Yeah.

00:14:59:00 - 00:15:00:16
Ibi
Is that why your name is Yelena?

00:15:00:17 - 00:15:01:22

Yes.

00:15:02:00 - 00:15:10:07
Ibi
You know, I was thinking. That doesn't sound like an American name at all.

00:15:10:09 - 00:15:23:09
Ibi
How long did it take you to actually save for this stuff? How long did it take you to get to a point where you had saved enough that you were able to consider, like, I'm sure I don't know. Was it like a specific target that you.

00:15:23:09 - 00:15:25:17

Set yourself? Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:25:18 - 00:15:29:15
Ibi
Okay. And how long did it take you to reach that target?

00:15:29:17 - 00:15:31:12
Yelena

00:15:31:14 - 00:15:36:01
Ibi
And when did you set the target?

00:15:36:03 - 00:15:51:21
Yelena
I don't remember specifically when I think when I started researching it. And the target is kind of is based on your spending so centrally 20 times your monthly spending.

00:15:51:23 - 00:15:52:16
Ibi
20 times.

00:15:52:16 - 00:15:54:00

You'll be spending.

00:15:54:04 - 00:15:57:04
Yelena
And.

00:15:57:06 - 00:16:00:01

What?

00:16:00:03 - 00:16:01:14
Ibi
It must be 200 times a month.

00:16:01:15 - 00:16:01:21

Yeah.

00:16:02:01 - 00:16:39:14
Yelena
I think 200 times. So it's like if you're spending well, it's essentially the 4% rule. So yeah, if you're spending 40 K a year then you need about $1 million because you can take out 4% per year and still leave enough in to, to count for inflation at like. And this is kind of assuming a pretty like a growth rate of 6 to 7% in the stock market.

00:16:39:14 - 00:16:41:00

So which.

00:16:41:00 - 00:16:45:08
Ibi
Is historically a very comfortable. Right target.

00:16:45:09 - 00:16:47:05

Right. Yeah.

00:16:47:07 - 00:17:09:21
Ibi
Okay. So let's say somebody was spending 40 k year dollars. This is the total spending on rent plus food plus plus everything right. And it's 200 times that because that's where we get the 4% from.

00:17:09:23 - 00:17:10:14

Well so.

00:17:10:14 - 00:17:19:10
Yelena
I think it's the monthly. So there it's 40 per year. Then it's about three.

00:17:19:12 - 00:17:23:04
Yelena
K per month.

00:17:23:06 - 00:17:25:06
Yelena
But then.

00:17:25:08 - 00:17:27:14

What's three times 300.

00:17:27:16 - 00:17:29:01
Ibi
600.

00:17:29:03 - 00:17:30:11
Yelena
Okay I'll have to look.

00:17:30:12 - 00:17:31:15

I think.

00:17:31:17 - 00:17:34:16
Yelena
Yeah. Not quite. We might.

00:17:34:16 - 00:17:35:00

Have to.

00:17:35:01 - 00:17:35:21
Ibi
We might have to do.

00:17:35:21 - 00:17:37:12

Something to do.

00:17:37:14 - 00:17:38:09
Ibi
On this okay.

00:17:38:11 - 00:17:40:01
Yelena
But the 4% rule.

00:17:40:02 - 00:17:40:08

That's.

00:17:40:13 - 00:17:41:08
Yelena
Let's stick to that.

00:17:41:09 - 00:17:41:16

Yeah.

00:17:41:17 - 00:18:04:08
Ibi
Let's stick to that I agree because I've heard of this 4% rule as well okay. So is it is it that you just but what happens when your monthly income, your monthly expenditure goes up with inflation because your monthly expenditure is not going to be like, oh, let's take annual expenditure.

00:18:04:09 - 00:18:04:16

Right.

00:18:04:17 - 00:18:32:00
Yelena
Well that's why it's yeah, that's why you're kind of leaving some money in. So like your portfolio's probably growing at 6 or 7%. So you're only taking out 4%. That leaves a little more in there. So you can kind of increase that. Your overall portfolio goes up and your monthly income can go up by inflation too.

00:18:32:02 - 00:18:40:22
Ibi
So let's say inflation is 2 or 3%. And then you leave 2 or 3% in there and then that goes up. All right.

00:18:41:00 - 00:19:14:14
Yelena
Yeah. And these are like assumptions of course. Yeah. So if the inflation is a lot higher for a long time and these are kind of averages. So if inflation is higher one year but then a little lower next year, it's fine. As long as it's still averaging to kind of those 2 or 3%. If you think it's going to be a lot higher for your whole retirement, then you might want to save a little more.

00:19:14:16 - 00:19:41:10
Yelena
But also if your portfolio is going up more than 6 or 7 or 8% like it has been in the last few years, like the stock market has generally gone up more than that, then you can also adjust. You might need less. Also, if you're investing in real estate, you might need less because real estate works in a slightly different way than.

00:19:41:11 - 00:19:42:02

The.

00:19:42:04 - 00:19:42:17
Ibi
Average, and.

00:19:42:17 - 00:19:45:22

You can have higher growth.

00:19:46:00 - 00:19:49:14
Ibi
So how long does it take to get from.

00:19:49:16 - 00:19:50:04

Your job?

00:19:50:05 - 00:19:53:00
Yelena
I think it took about ten years.

00:19:53:01 - 00:19:54:20

To my particularities.

00:19:54:22 - 00:19:56:09
Yelena
Okay to reach my.

00:19:56:09 - 00:19:57:04

Goal.

00:19:57:06 - 00:20:01:16
Ibi
Ten years. And were you on a abnormal salary or a normal salary?

00:20:01:19 - 00:20:03:19
Yelena
I was making higher than normal.

00:20:03:20 - 00:20:04:15
Ibi
You were making higher.

00:20:04:15 - 00:20:05:07

Than normal.

00:20:05:08 - 00:20:08:04
Ibi
Okay. How? Why?

00:20:08:06 - 00:20:46:03
Yelena
Because, like I was in data science and data science one, it's already a technical field, so you can earn quite a bit because it is considered like a tech specialty, but also because there was a shortage of data. Scientists like data science exploded about ten years ago or 15 years ago. And so a lot of companies wanted a data scientist or data analysts, and they were paying probably more than a typical field.

00:20:46:05 - 00:20:47:14
Ibi
Did you know that going into it?

00:20:47:15 - 00:20:49:23

No, no, no.

00:20:50:00 - 00:21:12:20
Yelena
I went into it just because I liked it. And that was a job that I found. I liked solving problems. I liked kind of some of the coding. I liked building into reports, and I enjoyed it. So I stuck with it. And then it kind of, yeah, exploded. And I was in the right place at the right time.

00:21:12:21 - 00:21:15:05

Oh my God.

00:21:15:07 - 00:21:34:22
Yelena
So yeah, so it was helpful. But I think anyone can do fire. I think it's more a matter of setting the goal and, you know, creating that kind of saving potential. So spending less than you earn.

00:21:35:00 - 00:21:39:15

00:21:39:17 - 00:21:48:19
Ibi
That's incredible. So ten years. And the thing is. Right?

00:21:48:21 - 00:21:53:03

Is that.

00:21:53:05 - 00:22:16:10
Ibi
It has to be something defined and targeted, like to explicitly have a goal and then save a dedicated amount to that goal. Were you like tracking it as a metric or something somewhere, or you just kind of like dropping some cash every now and then in a specific account?

00:22:16:12 - 00:22:49:22
Yelena
I mean, I was tracking my total net worth, like my accounts at the time I was using mint. I think there is now like Credit Karma or other apps that just connect to all your accounts and can show you you're not worth. But I was essentially just saving as much as I could. My goal was not ten years my like I had a monetary goal and then I was just, you know, going to get there at some point.

00:22:50:00 - 00:22:55:17
Yelena
So I was just, you know, saving as much as I comfortably could.

00:22:55:19 - 00:22:57:18

Interesting, interesting.

00:22:57:19 - 00:23:06:00
Ibi
Okay. What happened in the last year before you hit the goal?

00:23:06:02 - 00:23:21:23
Ibi
Did you get a a feeling of, oh, there's an opportunity for me to retire or oh, what will I do? What will I be known as? Or oh, I'm so fucking excited. Or like what was the feeling in that one year before.

00:23:22:04 - 00:23:23:00

00:23:23:02 - 00:23:51:17
Yelena
So I didn't retire when I actually hit my goal. But I did start traveling I because yeah, I think at that point I was able to kind of focus okay. Like I really want to travel, I'm going to do this even if it maybe like compromises my career eventually. But I was still able to work remotely, which was helpful.

00:23:51:18 - 00:23:57:18
Yelena
It kind of provided that cushion.

00:23:57:20 - 00:23:58:19

I think.

00:23:59:00 - 00:24:09:10
Yelena
Emotionally, like, I don't know, I think I kind of felt doubt as well. Like I wasn't sure if it was going to work.

00:24:09:12 - 00:24:10:13
Ibi
If it was enough.

00:24:10:14 - 00:24:25:20
Yelena
Yeah. Like if it was enough, it if I also wasn't sure if my spending would change when I retired because I thought, oh, like, if I have all this time, maybe I'll want to spend a lot more.

00:24:25:22 - 00:24:57:03
Yelena
To entertain myself in the hours that I'm not working. But I actually found the opposite. Like I was able to spend less and I'm able to spend less now that I'm retired. Just focusing on slower things like slower travel path, like doing things that kind of take more time, like volunteering or.

00:24:57:05 - 00:25:04:11
Yelena
Yeah, like doing the dive master training. That's something that I would not have been able to do when I was working.

00:25:04:17 - 00:25:07:22
Ibi
Are you under spending against the target that you set yourself to spend a.

00:25:07:22 - 00:25:09:00

Year.

00:25:09:01 - 00:25:09:09
Ibi
Or are you.

00:25:09:10 - 00:25:10:20

Hitting it?

00:25:10:22 - 00:25:14:04
Yelena
I think I'm under spending slightly.

00:25:14:06 - 00:25:17:02
Ibi
How does that feel?

00:25:17:04 - 00:25:19:11

Good. I think more.

00:25:19:13 - 00:25:34:16
Yelena
It provides. Like more security. The portfolio can can grow. And then if there is a year with more expenses, you're prepared for it again.

00:25:34:17 - 00:25:35:19

00:25:35:21 - 00:25:36:16
Ibi
Interesting.

00:25:36:17 - 00:25:42:02

Yeah.

00:25:42:04 - 00:25:45:13
Ibi
Do you feel special.

00:25:45:15 - 00:25:46:19
Ibi
Do you feel like a genius.

00:25:46:20 - 00:25:50:06

No.

00:25:50:08 - 00:26:11:17
Yelena
I, I feel like I am lucky to have kind of figured out that this is possible, that this is something that people do and kind of read about how people do it. But I didn't invent this. Like I just learned from others.

00:26:11:19 - 00:26:28:09
Yelena
And I like I think anyone can kind of follow a similar path just by educating yourself on kind of how how to save, how to invest.

00:26:28:11 - 00:26:36:16
Yelena
How to earn more. Like all of these things help you kind of get to the end goal.

00:26:36:18 - 00:26:52:18
Ibi
There's a lot of people that talk about retirement and they're like, oh, I don't know what I would do in my retirement. I don't know what I would do if they talk about retiring at 65 or something and then having a whole 30 years of life. I know what to do. How does that make you feel to be retired?

00:26:52:20 - 00:27:18:07
Yelena
I think it's partially true. I think you have to have, you know, goals and interests that you are already pursuing. Because when I first retired, like maybe a month or two in there is kind of like an identity shift. Like I was like, oh, I'm no longer a data scientist. I'm not even a digital nomad because I'm not, like.

00:27:18:09 - 00:27:19:05

Making money.

00:27:19:05 - 00:27:25:20
Yelena
More like, who am I? What am I like? What am I going to do with my life?

00:27:25:22 - 00:27:27:06
Ibi
I need two months to work.

00:27:27:06 - 00:27:28:15

It out.

00:27:28:17 - 00:28:09:10
Yelena
Well, no, it took two months to kind of feel like I don't know who I am anymore. And that was a little scary. Like, I think there was both, yes, excitement, but also kind of fear and confusion. And I think it is important to kind of have those hobbies, interests, maybe even secondary, I don't know, jobs or tasks that you are working on to shift, to be able to shift kind of your energy from work into those paths.

00:28:09:12 - 00:28:14:19
Yelena
And from there, yeah, you can kind of build on it or discover new things.

00:28:14:22 - 00:28:16:02
Ibi
So what are you doing with the.

00:28:16:02 - 00:28:17:07

Time travel?

00:28:17:07 - 00:28:18:18
Yelena
I would say is the main thing.

00:28:18:19 - 00:28:19:16

Very good.

00:28:19:20 - 00:28:57:18
Yelena
That was, you know, always a passion. And so being able to do that without worrying about deadlines and meetings is really rewarding. But I'm also doing yoga and meditation, like teaching meditation is a big passion of mine. So offering that to currently friends but eventually growing it to kind of include potentially other travelers or digital nomads would be a really rewarding kind of path.

00:28:57:19 - 00:29:01:04
Ibi
Is it something that you actively offer to digital nomads?

00:29:01:06 - 00:29:26:10
Yelena
I currently have one weekly class that is free to attend and it's yeah, digital nomads or really anyone can join. I think it's important for digital nomads because it just kind of helps ground, helps kind of relieve some of that energy that I feel like is very.

00:29:26:12 - 00:29:45:20
Yelena
I don't know, unbound because we're traveling so much because we're kind of constantly moving around. I think, like meditation would really help me kind of, okay, like I've arrived here to kind of feel at home anywhere.

00:29:45:22 - 00:29:56:08
Ibi
Why is it the nomad community that you're connected to? Is it is it just how I'm seeing you now, like when you're normally traveling, are you connected to the digital nomad community?

00:29:56:10 - 00:30:14:15
Yelena
Sometimes I mean, here, yes, but I also travel a lot by myself and I'll just solo travel, explore on my own. So yeah, it varies. I like to mix it up.

00:30:14:17 - 00:30:16:14

And now.

00:30:16:16 - 00:30:28:00
Ibi
You've got, I got a theory. That theory is that you only start living when you're 20, and you kind of stop living when you're 80.

00:30:28:01 - 00:30:28:09

Okay.

00:30:28:10 - 00:30:54:09
Ibi
The theory is, the first 20 years, in the last 20 years of your life are kind of like write offs on both of their ends. For me, at least the first 20 years of my life, I was kind of like just going with the flow, doing what people told me. I wasn't really making my own decisions. And I also think that in the last 20 years of my life, I'm probably, if I'm still around, I guess, you know, going to be just going with the flow and not really making my own decisions or anything because I'll be old and gray.

00:30:54:10 - 00:30:56:00
Yelena
This is like 80 to 100.

00:30:56:01 - 00:30:56:18

Yeah. Okay.

00:30:56:19 - 00:31:19:00
Ibi
80 to 100. Yeah. So I reckon between 20 and 80 is those 60 years that you're really living right now. You'll probably want a third or so of the way through that. And you've got two thirds or so of it left. Like how does that feel? What are you going to do with that? You've got some of the most incredible years of your life ahead of you, right?

00:31:19:00 - 00:31:26:15
Ibi
And you're financially free and you've got time to do so to do things. What are you going to do with it? How excited are you?

00:31:26:17 - 00:31:53:15
Yelena
Yeah, it's very exciting. I think partially I ask myself that as well. What am I going to do when I grow up? And it's not always clear, but I think following these two passions is kind of the path, like yoga and meditation and traveling. Those are the things that I enjoy most, and that's what I want to continue doing.

00:31:53:16 - 00:32:04:02
Yelena
And, you know, and spending time with friends and family and new friends and new family. Digital family.

00:32:04:04 - 00:32:17:09
Ibi
Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, actually at time, but I really appreciate that. And I never knew what fire was until I spoke to you. You could even say that you sparked a fire inside me.

Yelena McElwain: The 10-Year Retiree

The 10-Year Retiree Who Achieved Financial Freedom Through Patience

The Book That Started Everything

The Russian Foundation

Right Place, Right Time

The 10-Year Plan

Travelling Whilst Working

The Identity Crisis

The Spending Paradox

What She Does Now

The Path Forward

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