00:00:00:00 - 00:00:33:03
Ibi
Hello and welcome to ITV's Digital Nomad Stories, featuring real conversations with professionals who've cracked the code to sustainable, nomadic lifestyles. These people aren't beach and Wi-Fi chasers. They're building competitive advantages that traditional employment could never match. Global mobility, income diversification and the freedom to capitalize on opportunities anywhere. I'm Avi Malik, your favorite digital nomad consultant. And today I'm joined on the show by Jocelyn McCurdy.
00:00:33:03 - 00:00:57:22
Ibi
Keith's someone who spent ten years trying to save the world from inside Washington, DC. She was doing the work producing events for politicians on camera, reporting for protests, but the system swallowed her whole. Networking became performance. Activism became about who you know, not what you are trying to solve. So she left. She told herself she just wanted to travel.
00:00:58:00 - 00:01:30:16
Ibi
But what she actually discovered was perspective. Distance gave her clarity that the insiders never had. She could see problems and solutions more objectively. Thinking long term, instead of just chasing viral moments, she focused on what worked, not what the power networks demanded. Now she runs political campaigns from French castles more effective than she ever was in DC. Turns out, the best way to change the system is to see it from the outside.
00:01:30:18 - 00:01:37:12
Ibi
Here's Jocelyn. So. Jocelyn. Yes. Hi. Hi. Hi. Nice to meet you.
00:01:37:13 - 00:01:38:03
Jocelyn
Nice to meet.
00:01:38:03 - 00:01:40:16
Ibi
You. It's like I. We've never met before.
00:01:40:17 - 00:01:45:10
Jocelyn
I feel this rapport with, you know, this comfort. I just I don't know where it comes from, but I really enjoy it.
00:01:45:12 - 00:01:49:10
Ibi
It's almost as if we lived together for six weeks.
00:01:49:12 - 00:01:50:07
Jocelyn
Something like that.
00:01:50:08 - 00:01:57:00
Ibi
Something like that. Where. How do you make money as a nomad?
00:01:57:02 - 00:02:08:03
Jocelyn
So I have been a political consultant in Washington, D.C. for about ten years. And then I, after Covid hit, I wanted to start traveling.
00:02:08:06 - 00:02:08:23
Ibi
00:02:09:01 - 00:02:32:18
Jocelyn
What I was, I think, less aware of when I started doing it is I was actually just completely burnt out on Washington politics specifically. And like you're a Londoner. So I think, you know, the specific burnout that you can have from big power centers where there is this kind of ambient narcissism and everything cost thousands of pounds.
00:02:32:20 - 00:02:35:06
Ibi
So thank you for saying pounds.
00:02:35:06 - 00:02:36:22
Jocelyn
You're welcome. I know my audience.
00:02:36:22 - 00:02:43:10
Ibi
Thank you. Yes it does cost thousands of pounds or dollars.
00:02:43:12 - 00:02:52:05
Jocelyn
So I just started traveling and I took with me the freelance work that I could do from anywhere.
00:02:52:06 - 00:02:55:05
Ibi
After ten years of building a political life. Yeah.
00:02:55:05 - 00:03:17:06
Jocelyn
So for me like what I so for reference, what I do is I help candidates and activists build a media profile because in the US and this problem also exists other places, there's a significant right wing media bias. And so it takes quite a bit of strategy for people who are on the right side of history to actually get the attention they deserve.
00:03:17:08 - 00:03:48:03
Jocelyn
But what I don't think I really realize is that it wasn't just about wanting to travel. I feel like being kind of baked in. This big American power city had kind of wounded my relationship with activism. And a lot of ways, you know, I don't know if you can relate to that if you ever felt that way, but it felt like the things that I wanted to do were kind of being distorted by all these layers of like, influence and networks of power and funding.
00:03:48:05 - 00:03:54:06
Jocelyn
And I was just kind of like, what if I just left? Like, what's the worst that could happen?
00:03:54:07 - 00:04:00:00
Ibi
So you're saying it's more of like, you got stuck in some kind of loop in some kind of circle, kind of.
00:04:00:00 - 00:04:11:17
Jocelyn
It's kind of like, I think that for me, I got into progressive politics because I wanted to save the world, right? That's what everybody wants when they're 19 years old.
00:04:11:19 - 00:04:15:10
Ibi
And good reason as any like. Well, it needs some saving.
00:04:15:12 - 00:04:37:17
Jocelyn
You go into the then you go into this like world and it's kind of like there are so many people with power and money, and instead of saving the world, you're trying to form these relationships and keep these relationships, and it becomes increasingly unclear, okay, is this leading to anything? Or am I just kind of stuck in this, like, narcissistic social system?
00:04:37:19 - 00:05:08:22
Jocelyn
You know, and I want to be clear, none of this was super conscious when I decided to leave. I decided to leave because I was just like, you know what? I'm just going to travel for a while. Why not? I'm gonna write my media advisories from the Greek islands. Sounds nice. But as I traveled more and met other travelers, I realized there was actually something much deeper going on with why I left and why was staying away, such as.
00:05:09:00 - 00:05:12:19
Jocelyn
So I've been thinking about how to put this into words.
00:05:12:21 - 00:05:18:20
Ibi
Tell me. So even if it doesn't make sense, let's see if we can make it. Make sense.
00:05:18:22 - 00:05:30:16
Jocelyn
I think that a lot of times when you have a career that's based in one place, you know, as we in the nomad community call them, normies like you end up.
00:05:30:18 - 00:05:32:18
Ibi
Muggles.
00:05:32:20 - 00:05:57:01
Jocelyn
Your life ends up being weighed down with all these concerns that feel so important. But they aren't right. Like, maybe you need to have this expensive flat or car and then you're seeing all these people every week and and then there's not really a lot of energy left over to be creative, to be intrinsically motivated to really think about, like, okay, what it what am I doing with my career?
00:05:57:03 - 00:06:18:21
Jocelyn
And I think this is so important because there's a stereotype of nomad thing, that you're just always on holiday and you're working from a beach in Thailand, but really, and I know I'm not alone in this. I have found like my creative and intellectual energy, so much more available when I'm not weighed down with this. Like kind of like daily energy.
00:06:18:21 - 00:06:20:01
Ibi
Tax.
00:06:20:03 - 00:06:24:05
Jocelyn
Of having to maintain a muggle existence.
00:06:24:07 - 00:06:25:07
Ibi
And all my existence.
00:06:25:08 - 00:06:30:00
Jocelyn
Yeah. Did you feel like that too?
00:06:30:02 - 00:06:49:17
Ibi
Yes and no, in varying ways, actually, I would say yes in the way that when I was surrounded by, the normality of routine life, a lot of my life would be taken up by those routines.
00:06:49:19 - 00:06:51:02
Jocelyn
Yeah.
00:06:51:04 - 00:07:15:00
Ibi
And I didn't have any external influence to challenge those routines. And those routines somehow just became bigger and bigger. Like, Saturday was just, you know, a read, a write off with just doing some chores around the house. Whereas now I've made those things so efficient that it's like Saturday is absolutely free and those things are just slotted into my week in other places.
00:07:15:02 - 00:07:37:00
Ibi
So yeah, I do think that, I also think it's nice, to have some of that routine and it's necessary that no matter where you are, like how you travel or what you're doing, you still maintain some of those routines. For me, it's like meal prepping and that kind of stuff and no finances. But I agree in many ways.
00:07:37:01 - 00:08:01:02
Ibi
Okay, I got a question. Tell me the so you said the, it limited or inhibited your creativity in some way, being in the same place and you kind of was it re sparked by traveling and if so, how so?
00:08:01:02 - 00:08:18:08
Jocelyn
Okay. So I want to be full, full disclosure, honest, for anyone, anyone who wants to become a nomad, I feel like there is this period. Maybe it's a few months. Maybe it's a year where you're kind of acclimating and you're you're not going to be terrible, like, you know, and I think we should tell the truth about that.
00:08:18:08 - 00:08:43:02
Jocelyn
Right? Like there is this period where probably you're getting used to this situation where you're switching countries and cultures all the time. But after that, I was kind of shocked by how much I was suddenly taking on projects that were more important and more exciting and more challenging and more existentially aligned with the things that I cared about than ever before.
00:08:43:04 - 00:09:10:11
Jocelyn
Because I wasn't stuck in this limiting idea of what it meant to be a political activist, or what it meant to be, you know, to create charismatic media campaigns. Because I wasn't just stuck in this sphere where everybody's kind of saying the same things and doing the same things. You know, I collected so many things from traveling the world, but I really didn't expect how much my career would take off.
00:09:10:13 - 00:09:20:03
Jocelyn
Because I was traveling the world and because I was meeting people every day. And these couple of things that are just kind of challenge your assumptions.
00:09:20:05 - 00:09:23:21
Ibi
About, give some examples of assumptions and how they were challenged.
00:09:23:23 - 00:09:24:21
Jocelyn
Well, okay.
00:09:24:21 - 00:09:26:04
Ibi
It's a hard question, I know that.
00:09:26:05 - 00:09:33:19
Jocelyn
No, I mean, it's a great question. I think I feel a little guilty. I think everyone uses this, but, German friends.
00:09:33:21 - 00:09:37:10
Ibi
I'm intimately familiar with the German people.
00:09:37:12 - 00:09:51:13
Jocelyn
You know, I found myself, building this kind of alternate life in Berlin, and, you know, German assumptions about what professionalism looks like and what intellectual honesty looks like are so different.
00:09:51:15 - 00:09:53:06
Ibi
And to American, to.
00:09:53:06 - 00:10:14:19
Jocelyn
American, right? Yeah. To American paradigms of networking and creativity. And like in forming these relationships, suddenly I was finding myself to be more organized. Yes, but also like more antifragile and more willing to look at things in a completely opposite way. And this is something that.
00:10:14:21 - 00:10:16:15
Ibi
What does antifragile mean?
00:10:16:17 - 00:10:19:03
Jocelyn
You know, like antifragile.
00:10:19:05 - 00:10:23:05
Ibi
Antifragile? What does antifragile.
00:10:23:05 - 00:11:03:04
Jocelyn
Mean? So it's a it's an economic term. It was it rose in popularity or on Covid, this idea that systems can sustain, some kind of traumatic catastrophe but still be resilient. And I think about this word a lot in terms of nomad ING. I think it builds if you're going to be a serious professional and become a nomad, you might be in for this period of like anti fragility building kind of where you're just becoming more aware of, like, what do I want to create, what kind of problems do I want to solve and how do I actually do that versus kind of relying on your network to tell you what to do or
00:11:03:04 - 00:11:28:11
Jocelyn
relying on, you know, what everyone else is doing in your sphere? You know, for me, it's political, but I do think this applies to startup culture, writing, creativity. I've seen so many other nomads who are very similar in the sense that when you stop assuming that everything everyone else is doing is correct, you might actually be in for the craziest ride of your life yet.
00:11:28:12 - 00:11:34:07
Jocelyn
You just like I'm just going to try shit. Why not?
00:11:34:09 - 00:11:49:13
Ibi
You're absolutely right, actually. And you touched on already, I think important point of the nomadic existence, which is that.
00:11:49:15 - 00:12:15:00
Ibi
You kind of become more resilient to the world because small things don't faze you the same way that they used to faze you. Actually, Katya was saying this at some point. She said that when she first told her friends that she was hitchhiking across India, she said it in such a nonchalant way, like, I just hitchhiked across India because it becomes such a small thing.
00:12:15:02 - 00:12:39:07
Ibi
She's just done it so much space. But to the normies, it was like, what the hell, Like cannot fathom. But you become more resilient to these small challenges. Like, how do I get from place A to B without money? Like, oh my God, it's not actually a big problem anymore because I've done it so many time and so used to it.
00:12:39:08 - 00:12:44:23
Ibi
Yes. So you kind of just start to think differently.
00:12:45:01 - 00:13:11:01
Jocelyn
Okay. So I think that in the before times, like, you know, I think normal people are running on this assumption that like, a great life is built on figuring it out. But actually that never happens, right? Because you get older, the economy changes. Maybe technology changes. So realistically, even if you stay in the same place your whole life, this idea of comfort is a complete illusion.
00:13:11:03 - 00:13:32:15
Jocelyn
And the edge you give yourself when you become a nomad is you kind of know that you're prepared for that because your life is changing every month, every two months. So you no longer become allergic to this idea that things can be totally different at the end of this business quarter. You know where I saw this a lot when I was living in DC in New York.
00:13:32:15 - 00:13:40:18
Jocelyn
Like people would do something. It works. And now for the next five years, next ten years, they're trying to like.
00:13:40:19 - 00:13:42:09
Ibi
Replicate that. Yeah.
00:13:42:11 - 00:14:05:06
Jocelyn
But the world has changed. And as nomads, I don't see us falling prey to that problem. And in the modern economy, comfort is the enemy, you know? I mean, everyone's always talking about AI, but it doesn't matter what it is. Disruption is kind of the law of the modern workforce. And I think you should kind of just like, internalize that and accept that.
00:14:05:08 - 00:14:08:14
Ibi
You are an oracle. I think we should be friends.
00:14:08:16 - 00:14:09:22
Jocelyn
Can we please I.
00:14:09:22 - 00:14:10:13
Ibi
Think we should.
00:14:10:14 - 00:14:12:21
Jocelyn
I was hoping it wasn't just about the podcast.
00:14:12:21 - 00:14:52:20
Ibi
But it wasn't just about friends. I agree with you. Let's talk about this nomadic mindset. Not because I think with nomads, they, the world thinks that nomads, are location independent and they can do whatever they want and it's true and set it in a way. But I believe that it's a specific mindset that nomads get from traveling that allows them to capitalize on more opportunities.
00:14:52:22 - 00:15:12:14
Ibi
It's like, I'm not just free in terms of my location. I'm free in terms of how I think I'm free, in terms of what opportunities I can capitalize on. It's no longer just my dad who is a plumber, so I'm going to become a plumber. It's like, oh my God, I can do anything. What can I do? I can go anywhere.
00:15:12:14 - 00:15:19:18
Ibi
What can I where can I go? How does that nomadic mindset relate to your your world?
00:15:19:19 - 00:15:25:01
Jocelyn
So thank you for saying that. You're so smart. You're so smart.
00:15:25:01 - 00:15:27:00
Ibi
You said it.
00:15:27:02 - 00:15:45:11
Jocelyn
So, I don't think it's a secret. And I don't think I'm letting the side down when I say that the American left is in trouble. And a big part of that is because, you know, going back to the Clintons and Obama at the beginning of the American Democratic digital consulting age, the left was ahead of the right.
00:15:45:11 - 00:16:04:02
Jocelyn
And so it's kind of what we're just talking about, like people are still chasing that high of like, let's do the let's run the same campaign over and over and over again. And people keep losing and because they're going to the same parties with the same people, they're sharing the same bad advice. Look, I can't believe I'm saying this on something that's going to be public.
00:16:04:07 - 00:16:30:00
Jocelyn
I don't care. It's just the truth. Like, you know, people that ran Hillary's campaign, they still work in politics, they still run campaigns. And I don't necessarily think they're bad people. I think they are in Washington, in New York, talking to the same people, replicating the same strategies over and over again. And it's destroying the U.S., which, because of America's geopolitical impact, has ramifications for the entire planet.
00:16:30:02 - 00:16:54:04
Jocelyn
It's terrifying. And it's so funny because people look at my life and are like, how are you so involved in American politics when you're out in the world? It's like, well, being out in the world is going to make you more aware and more cognizant of how important the American project really is. Like love or hate America, like what happens in the US impacts everybody.
00:16:54:06 - 00:17:18:11
Jocelyn
And I mean, we were just chatting about this. I really do think anyone, anyone who lives in the US should get out of the US for a period, but especially if you are in any way involved with America's government, get out of the country and like, really understand what's at stake. But it's a kind of ennui, I think, and it's something that we have to we have to fix.
00:17:18:12 - 00:17:42:04
Ibi
You mentioned anti fragility, which applies in politics and applies in your personal life. But let's say I'm the average American political worker. What would I expect to gain. What perspective would I expect to shift if I was to leave and experience something different?
00:17:42:06 - 00:18:17:21
Jocelyn
Well, I think the biggest thing that shifted for me, as an American is I've never been like, I'm money motivated person. But I think one of the biggest benefits for Americans living abroad is to really understand that, like money and capitalism is not the central driver of most cultures. That's a very uniquely American problem. And in the U.S, there can be this professional issue where people think if if something is profitable, it's working, when just as frequently the opposite is true, right?
00:18:17:21 - 00:18:42:04
Jocelyn
A profit incentives can disrupt the actual deliverables to where like, oh, it's making so much money. Clearly that it's and that I think was the biggest way that I became more creative because instead of like when I was in again, like, you know, DC, New York, whatever. Like instead of being distracted by how much money something makes, it was like, how are we going to solve this problem?
00:18:42:06 - 00:19:05:07
Jocelyn
And here's the funny thing. If you solve a problem and you solve it really well, it will eventually become profitable. Maybe not immediately, but if you're looking to form a career built on brilliance and acumen over the long haul, like it's a better, it's a better thing to be really good at what you do than to make a few thousand extra dollars tomorrow, you know?
00:19:05:09 - 00:19:30:14
Jocelyn
And that especially applies to politics and a world where how you solve problems and how you make money can become totally separate questions and health care, too, like it's a similar problem in America right now. The things that make a lot of money and the things that make people better have almost nothing to do with each other. And obviously people are dying at an alarming rate.
00:19:30:16 - 00:19:42:03
Ibi
It is a big matter of perspective. I think perspective for me is always the key word. Perspective for me is always the one that's like, yeah, what is?
00:19:42:05 - 00:20:09:06
Ibi
What is. The way of thinking that we grew accustomed to, that we were taught that we were given, that we were fed. That is actually not true. Once you sit back and challenge it even just the slightest bit. Yeah. And that whole the whole class, the whole class just cracks around you and then you're like, okay, nothing is as I first thought it really was.
00:20:09:08 - 00:20:21:11
Ibi
And that does make you think differently. Interesting. Okay, let's go back to politics, please. Let's go back to politics. What does it mean?
00:20:21:13 - 00:20:38:19
Ibi
To do your job? What do you actually do day to day? How do you find clients? How do you convince people that you're actually doing something that benefits you and the work you're doing, and is not acting to the work's detriment?
00:20:38:21 - 00:21:01:23
Jocelyn
Yeah. So, you know, I think we have a consultant surplus in the world right now. I don't think anyone, anyone would fight with that. So if I were ten years younger and I were trying to build a profitable consulting business of any kind, it would be like, okay, what problem am I trying to solve? And then demonstrate over and over again that I can solve that problem.
00:21:02:00 - 00:21:15:13
Jocelyn
One of my favorite quotes is, the best thing that could happen to a person is to fall completely in love with a problem, and not fall out of love with it until a better problem comes along. It's a good one, right?
00:21:15:15 - 00:21:24:20
Ibi
It is. It makes you think very playfully about the problem, creatively about the problem. Okay. Yeah, it's just my baby. Now I have to solve this problem.
00:21:24:22 - 00:21:49:01
Jocelyn
And so for me, you know, when I lived in DC, I was producing big events for politicians and activists and, like, an on camera reporter for a lot of these kinds of, like, events and protests and things like that. And now what I do is I produce digital events for the same type of people. And I also do a lot of, like left wing PR, like, okay, hey, you're doing this amazing thing.
00:21:49:01 - 00:22:20:10
Jocelyn
Let me get reporters to talk to you. And, you know, interestingly enough, being out of the US has actually made me much better at both of those things, because instead of having this idea of what the what that would look like, I get very, very, very clear on the data of like, okay, what is this reporters reach? Are they actually are they actually an authority here where when I was living in DC, I would end up reaching out to the reporters I knew.
00:22:20:11 - 00:23:00:18
Jocelyn
Right. And I don't think I'm alone in this. You develop this kind of availability or istic where you're just thinking about the people you talk to every day. Yeah. I want to be clear. When it comes to politics, I'm sure there are a lot of jobs you couldn't do remotely, but there are so many that you could, you know, data analytics, like, you know, polling so many of these things that I actually think being international would allow you to think more creatively about these problems versus just being kind of sucked into the, the funnel of what everyone else is already talking about.
00:23:00:20 - 00:23:29:19
Ibi
I want to talk about the reporters again, because we talked before about perspective and how traveling gives you a different perspective on the world based on what you see. But what you mentioned before is about looking at a report, using that as an example objectively and saying, what's there, rich? What's there? What can they do for me?
00:23:29:19 - 00:23:52:15
Ibi
You kind of because you've dissociated yourself from the situation, you can see it from a third party perspective. And the reason that comes to mind for me is because, in, in consulting for, you know, typical business financial problems, it's the same you look at the business objectively, you have to exit the you can't get caught in the middle of the business.
00:23:52:15 - 00:23:56:15
Ibi
You have to take a step back and look at it objectively and say, why is this business doing badly?
00:23:56:18 - 00:23:57:10
Jocelyn
Yes.
00:23:57:10 - 00:24:14:15
Ibi
And you've mentioned the same thing about the reporter, but let's what does that objectivity mean to you? What does that perspective back into the U.S, where you can now look at things objectively and make better decisions? What does that mean to you? How does it play out in your life?
00:24:14:20 - 00:24:45:16
Jocelyn
Well, so for a professional perspective, one problem that American politics has, and I think actually I think unfortunately it is spreading everywhere where you kind of have these like weird viral moments that everyone's trying to jump on, right? And it's like, oh, like this big thing just happened and we're all talking about it. But being kind of out of that, you know, and being here with you and like my emotional energy is so much more thinking in terms of how do we win in midterms this year?
00:24:45:16 - 00:25:06:07
Jocelyn
How do we win five years from now? And I'm able to instead, like, think more clearly, okay, like this thing is going viral, but this is probably not going to be going viral next week where when I was living in the US, I didn't have that emotional objectivity, you know, because I'm going to parties where everyone else is also hyper fixated on this one thing.
00:25:06:09 - 00:25:33:09
Jocelyn
But here I can more be like, okay, like, yeah, I don't really need to, you know, my client or me doesn't really need to be a part of this conversation. They need to be a part of this more substantial, you know, thing that has legs. And repeatedly I've had that experience of like, when you're able to be objective and think long term, you frequently accidentally become part of a viral conversation because you've built something, sustainable.
00:25:33:11 - 00:26:00:10
Jocelyn
You know, a really good example. This so I produced something called the Resistance Labs for Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, where she teaches people nonviolent resistance tactics. It's definitely like the project I'm most excited about right now. And we had one planned for the week that Alex Peretti was killed. And so our attendees went from like, you know, like about a thousand people to like, 6000 signups.
00:26:00:12 - 00:26:23:20
Jocelyn
And that's just such a better way to build something that can make a difference. Because we've been doing these every month for like a year. And then it happened to collide with a viral moment. And, you know, now we have all this attention and all that stuff, but it was coming from a place of stability, not this from this manic place of trying to force yourself into a conversation.
00:26:23:22 - 00:26:26:21
Jocelyn
You know.
00:26:26:23 - 00:26:48:02
Ibi
How do you resist the urge to conform and just do whatever? Surely you must think there's a viral thing happening. I got to jump on that. Or like a fear of missing out or a fear of like, oh my God, everybody's talking about, I don't know, do you? Do you feel like everybody's talking about this one thing? You should be connecting with it.
00:26:48:02 - 00:27:03:00
Ibi
Your heart should be with it. There's, you know, there's something happening in the world that my people are going through. Should I not be connecting with that? How do you separate and distance yourself from that emotion?
00:27:03:02 - 00:27:22:17
Jocelyn
Well, it's funny you say that because I think that the emotion to stay current and that way often comes from a good place, right? Like people are trying to, you know, when I was really young and I would go to these trainings on like process and media and things, you know, that the first thing they say is like, insert yourself in the viral conversation.
00:27:22:17 - 00:27:56:00
Jocelyn
But ten years in this field and I'm very aware it can backfire because instead of building authority and building substance and, you know, trust, basically you're just kind of becoming this like reactive Twitter bot to whatever's happening. And I, I like to think that if I had stayed in the U.S, I would have become aware of that. But I think leaving and being a nomad and obviously you go back to America a lot, so I don't want to make it sound like I've never been to the U.S before.
00:27:56:02 - 00:28:38:00
Jocelyn
But but leaving has made that self-awareness way more built it way faster than it would have otherwise. And I just feel way more like secure, you know, because if you and I are chatting into the night about life and travel, it just makes me more confident to then get up the next day and try to make the world a better place than I would if I'm in this really status oriented city where I'm trying to, like, compete with everyone else, you know, it builds this kind of emotional depth, I think, to do this kind of stuff from abroad.
00:28:38:02 - 00:28:40:10
Jocelyn
I don't know.
00:28:40:12 - 00:28:58:12
Ibi
No, I absolutely agree with you. I think I think it builds a lot of resilience. I think it's not just travel, it's the mindset, the mindset of I mean, anti fragility is the same as resilience when you think about it.
00:28:58:13 - 00:29:00:08
Jocelyn
Yeah totally totally.
00:29:00:10 - 00:29:06:22
Ibi
It's the same topic. It's the same principle.
00:29:07:00 - 00:29:13:15
Jocelyn
And I think that you meet so many gosh I'm really telling you things I shouldn't.
00:29:13:17 - 00:29:23:18
Ibi
I love things that I shouldn't know I had is, I was going to say full of them, but I actually don't know that many things that I shouldn't know. So give me a few of them.
00:29:24:00 - 00:29:49:11
Jocelyn
I think that and, you know, I think the U.S is particularly bad in this way, but I think it's true of everywhere. I think sometimes when you're trying to build a career, you get really distracted by, you know, do I actually respect these people or am I just like interacting with them because I feel I have to, to be a part of this professional world where when I became a nomad, suddenly I had a surplus of people I respected.
00:29:49:13 - 00:30:18:08
Jocelyn
You know, like meeting people like you and, you know, so many shuttle alumni. So you're like, oh my gosh, this person is so cool and inspiring. And, I don't have to talk to them. But I love talking to them. And suddenly instead of small chat being something that like, you feel like you have to do, you're excited to talk to people who are also successful and also creative, and it really does end up being this like, crazy boost.
00:30:18:10 - 00:30:26:14
Jocelyn
I didn't expect it and I'm still so inspired by it. I mean, do you feel like that when like a new co-living comes in your.
00:30:26:16 - 00:30:52:00
Ibi
That's one of the reasons that I, I'm here and I like Chateau co-living specifically so much because inspiration is not something easy to find. And I did not find a lot of inspiration in, you know, my hometown or even London is a big place. But, you know, the little pocket that I grew up in, I didn't find a lot of inspiration.
00:30:52:00 - 00:30:52:16
Jocelyn
Yeah.
00:30:52:18 - 00:31:16:01
Ibi
But then when I go out into the world and I, I see so many different ways of tackling the same problem, it makes me think you know what? There's no right or wrong answer. But just by trying hard at something and using the right general frameworks and the right general methodologies, I can get there. And the proof is in the people that I'm meeting.
00:31:16:06 - 00:31:18:13
Ibi
Yes, because they've done it.
00:31:18:15 - 00:31:44:13
Jocelyn
You know what it is? I think it's courage. Every nomad you meet, you have to be a certain amount of courageous to live this way. You have to be willing to like, I'm going to just see what happens if I go live in an entirely new culture and their degrees of it. Right? You know, for a German person coming to France, maybe it's not, but it's still there's a certain amount of willing to stand against the normative paradigm to live this way.
00:31:44:13 - 00:32:08:12
Jocelyn
And when you're surrounded by courageous people, there's something called collective nobility. We talk so much about, like, you know, the bystander effect and how things like war crimes can happen when there's collective lack of accountability. But there's something called collective nobility where when people around each other are creative and loving and inspiring, it brings out the best in everyone.
00:32:08:13 - 00:32:31:20
Jocelyn
And I am such an exponentially better person than I was four years ago, because I'm surrounded by people who, like, make me excited to be a part of the human race, you know, and you can't, you can't put a price on that. You can't bottle it. And like you said, that's not really an experience that's easy to access.
00:32:31:22 - 00:32:57:23
Ibi
Is absolutely unique. Yeah. And I think an interesting word that you mentioned is the word compound because it does or you said exponential because it compounds exponentially over time as you go down this path, it's like you learn a little bit and that opens your perspective, which allows you to align more and which opens your perspective, which allows you to learn more.
00:32:58:01 - 00:33:25:14
Ibi
And for me, the biggest change that I see is when I'm constantly changing and constantly improving. I grow exponentially fast. But to someone who's constantly not changing and it's like every single action compounds, every time I say yes, I'm going to do something different and the other person says, no, I'm going to do the same thing. They stay here and I go here.
00:33:25:14 - 00:33:39:00
Ibi
And after a while, just the balance is, a bit too big. Then I wonder, will they ever catch up?
00:33:39:02 - 00:34:04:03
Jocelyn
But, you know, the funny thing happens. And this is why, like, I'm so passionate about your projects and I'm so passionate in general about people understanding that there's a better way to live than the way we were all sold. I think it's a very American thing that is now, unfortunately, expanding into other parts of the world of like, you need to first, you need to secure a large income and then have some sort of nuclear family.
00:34:04:03 - 00:34:28:11
Jocelyn
And then you, you know, wait to die, I guess, like, you know, like, oh, oh, but then there's this other way where a year in our life is probably like a decade in the life of some of the people from our home. And it's not because of money, and it's not even really because of travel, it's because of that curiosity that compounds.
00:34:28:13 - 00:34:47:14
Jocelyn
And like the bigger it's like you're saying, like the more you grow your capacity intellectually and emotionally, suddenly you have like access to all this different world and life and beauty, and it's like, I want that for everybody. Can you imagine if everybody in the world felt that way?
00:34:47:16 - 00:34:56:13
Ibi
It would be you would if you made the world feel that way, just then you would have successfully changed the world. Yes. Let's change the world.
00:34:56:13 - 00:34:57:09
Jocelyn
Let's do it.
00:34:57:09 - 00:35:01:14
Ibi
Let's do it. We're out of time. But it was really a pleasure talking to you.
00:35:01:17 - 00:35:03:00
Jocelyn
Thank you for having me.
00:35:03:00 - 00:35:09:12
Ibi
And the good thing is, I get to keep talking to you. Even though this is not done, I do think you. Justin.
00:35:09:14 - 00:35:10:00
Jocelyn
That was.
00:35:10:00 - 00:35:11:09
Ibi
Awesome. It was.
00:35:11:09 - 00:35:13:11
Jocelyn
It was just having me, I.