Kayleigh Franks: The Seeker

March 20, 2026

Guest: Kayleigh Franks
Career: Head of Digital Marketing
Based: Nomadic
Instagram: @kayleighrf

Episode Description
Kayleigh Franks didn't stumble into digital nomadism. She hunted it down. In 2016, she flew to Chiang Mai and spent three months interviewing 24 digital nomads for 90 minutes each, studying them for her bachelor's thesis. Then she made it her life's mission to become one.

She took the long route. Got an office job in Sydney. Showed up every day. Built her skills in digital marketing. Established a foundation. COVID hit and restricted her further. When it lifted, she quit her job, went freelance, and finally started traveling.

But it wasn't what she expected. Airbnbs isolated her. The magic she'd observed in Chiang Mai was missing. Then she discovered co-living. After eight years of planning and building toward this life, she finally found what she'd been chasing.

In this conversation, we explore what happens when you spend a decade preparing for something and reality still surprises you. We discuss the time prison of office work, why one month is both too long and not long enough, and the trade-offs between freedom and connection that every nomad eventually faces.

Timestamps
00:00-00:35 Introduction
00:35-01:33 Guest introduction
01:33-02:08 Writing a thesis about digital nomads
02:08-02:43 Chiang Mai 2016, 24 interviews
02:43-03:34 Integrating with the community
03:34-04:23 Observing nomads in their natural habitat
04:23-05:00 What she does now: digital marketing
05:00-05:33 Life's mission to become a nomad
05:33-06:25 Building career deliberately in Sydney
06:25-07:02 COVID restrictions
07:02-08:12 Deliberately calculated approach
08:12-09:09 First attempts: Airbnbs and isolation
09:09-10:44 Connection and belonging, the cafe lady
10:44-11:03 Month-long stays and hubs
11:03-12:23 Ten-day connection threshold
12:23-12:52 Discovering co-living in 2025
12:52-13:24 The magic and aliveness
13:24-14:19 Sustainability of co-living lifestyle
14:19-15:34 One month co-livings back-to-back intensity
15:34-16:25 Maintaining productivity while traveling
16:25-17:17 Five hours a day, four days a week
17:17-18:08 Time prison of office work
18:08-18:56 Digital nomadism as solution
18:56-20:12 How does it feel to have made it?
20:12-20:59 Gratitude and creating your own luck
20:59-21:50 Challenges and difficulties
21:50-23:15 Slow travel vs fast travel preferences
23:15-24:29 Community building in co-livings
24:29-25:44 Deep connections vs surface connections
25:44-27:48 Relationships and nomadism trade-offs
27:48-29:45 Freedom vs connection, making decisions
29:45-30:06 Worth being nomadic, liberation from structure
30:06-30:23 Closing

About This Podcast
Real conversations with successful digital nomads who've built sustainable location-independent income. Strategic insights on how they transitioned, what income streams they built, and what they wish they'd known earlier. No travel tips or lifestyle fluff.

Host
Ibi Malik helps ambitious professionals transition to nomadic careers without income sacrifice.

To watch the video follow this link: https://youtu.be/yev3GdVSrhk

Follow for weekly episodes featuring professionals who've successfully built nomadic income streams.

Episode length: ~30 minutes
Published: 20th March 2026
Episode #9

Guest Reflection

Halfway through our conversation at Chateau Co-living in Normandy, Kayleigh did what came naturally. She'd been answering my questions for twenty minutes when something shifted. She paused, smiled slightly, and asked: "Can I ask you questions?"

It was the researcher emerging. The woman who spent three months in Chiang Mai in 2016 interviewing digital nomads, studying them in their natural habitat, understanding what made them tick. Old habits, it seems, die hard.

After nine episodes of guests being interviewed, perhaps it was time someone turned the tables. But before she did, Kayleigh told me her story. About deliberately building a life around nomadism years before most people knew what that meant. About the rocky start that nearly made her question everything. And about finally discovering that the thing she'd been chasing for a decade was real.

Studying Nomads Before It Was Normal

In 2015, Kayleigh was doing her bachelor's degree in business and tourism when her brother told her about something called digital nomadism. The concept fascinated her immediately.

"I decided to research into it. And nomadism was up at the time, and it said the number one hub was Chiang Mai. So I flew to Chiang Mai and spent three months interviewing digital nomads."

This was 2016. Before COVID made remote work mainstream. Before digital nomad visas existed. Before co-living spaces were everywhere.

She conducted 24 interviews, each an hour and a half long. Sitting in cafes, asking people why they'd chosen this life, what Tim Ferriss's Four Hour Work Week meant to them (spoiler: they didn't actually work four hours), how they made it work.

"I wasn't technically a nomad because I wasn't working. I was studying them, but I integrated."

She lived in an apartment building where other nomads lived. They'd run into each other in corridors. Meet at the same cafes for co-working. There were no formal co-living spaces then, but they created community anyway. Self-sufficiently building connections when the infrastructure didn't exist yet.

What she observed changed everything.

"It became my life's mission after that to actually become one myself."

The Long Game

Most people fall into nomadism. Job goes remote. Partner suggests trying it. Life circumstances change and suddenly it's possible.

Kayleigh didn't fall into anything. She built towards it deliberately.

"I based my whole career on how I could choose something that would allow me to become location independent."

After returning from Thailand, she chose digital marketing specifically because it was location-flexible. But she didn't go remote immediately. She did something counterintuitive: she got an office job.

"I decided to work for an agency in Sydney to be able to build up my skills. But they had to have me in the office every day. That doesn't align with me at all. But I knew it was a good way to establish a foundation that would allow me to travel at my own will."

Years of showing up to an office she didn't want to be in. Building skills. Getting experience. Creating the foundation that would eventually let her work from anywhere.

Then COVID hit. Everything went remote anyway. When restrictions lifted, she saw her moment.

"After that, I was like, there is nothing stopping me now. So I quit my job. I went out on my own."

It worked. Within a year, she was earning enough to support herself to become a digital nomad. The long game had paid off.

When I asked how she felt about being one of the few people who'd planned it this deliberately, her answer surprised me.

When It Didn't Work

"I obviously spent so many years anticipating this kind of lifestyle, and then I started doing it. And I actually didn't enjoy the way I did it. And I was like, what have I done my whole life? I've worked towards it, and it's not what I expected."

Years of planning. Years of building skills. Years of anticipation. And when she finally did it, travelling through South America and Europe, she hated it.

The problem? Airbnbs.

"It really restricts who you interact with. I think for me, a lot of the beauty to nomadism is actually connecting with people and similar mindsets, but it really isolates you when you're in an Airbnb."

She could go to events. Visit co-working spaces. But it wasn't the same as what she'd observed in Chiang Mai, where community formed naturally through proximity and repetition.

"When I was studying, connection with people is a big part of feeling like you belong in an area."

In Thailand, she'd found an old woman at a local cafe who hugged her every day. They couldn't speak each other's languages, but the woman would sit with her, chat in Thai, hug her goodbye. That daily ritual created belonging.

"It just makes you feel like you belong, which is a big part of the pain of being nomadic."

Going to the same cafes daily. Staying in places for at least a month. These weren't just preferences. They were survival strategies.

"You're only able to connect with people to the depth that you're looking for after ten days."

One week somewhere? You're still a tourist. A month? You might actually build something real.

But Airbnbs, even with month-long stays, kept her isolated from the very community she'd spent years working towards.

The Magic of Co-living

Then she discovered proper co-living spaces. Not just apartments where nomads happened to live, but intentionally designed community spaces.

Chateau Co-living in Normandy, where we sat talking, was her first experience of a true co-living.

"It took you from 2016" to discover this, I pointed out. Years of being nomadic before finding what she'd been looking for.

The difference was immediate. Activities she'd never think of doing herself. Skill sharing. Opening her mind to how other people think. The opposite of isolation.

When I asked her to define what co-living actually is, she struggled. Like Edouard before her, finding words for it proved difficult. Eventually, after some back and forth, we landed on what came up in Edouard's episode: it's a feeling.

More specifically: "It's like a family feeling. Everybody has a different definition of family. But for me it's like you feel good here with other people. It's not permanent because everybody's going to move on with their life and go different places. So it's for a few weeks, a few months. But yeah, it's like family feeling."

She was passionate speaking about her experience at the chateau. The magic of it. Being surrounded by people on similar journeys, creating space to actually connect deeply despite knowing everyone would leave eventually.

This was what she'd observed in Chiang Mai back in 2016. What those early nomads had built without infrastructure. Now the infrastructure existed, and it was everything she'd hoped for.

Productivity and the Time Prison

Kayleigh works four days a week and around five hours each day. Twenty hours total.

She runs digital marketing strategies for universities. Meta campaigns. Google ads. Budget management. Lead generation. The kind of work that traditionally requires being in an office, responding immediately, being available.

She does it in twenty hours whilst living in a French castle.

"I'm very efficient at my work now, and that's because I have to be, because I want to enjoy this life that I'm living."

The five-day work week? She has thoughts.

"It's like a time prison. We've just accepted that that's the norm."

Being nomadic forced her to become more efficient. Not because she's working less hard, but because the life she wants to live requires it. Travel, connection, experience, all of that needs time. The traditional work structure doesn't leave room.

When I pointed out that she'd made it, that she had the freedom she'd desired since 2016, her response was genuine.

"You saying all of that really brought up a lot of joy in me. I guess I just never really stopped to think about it that much. I just think this is what I need to be doing, and that's it."

She paused, reflecting.

"I love I'm so grateful for my life. Honestly, I feel like I'm one of the luckiest people. I mean, also, you create your own luck, but I do feel like I'm very lucky and grateful for being able to like this year, choosing. I'm like, where do I want to be in March and April? Like, what country do I want to be in? It's just like, what a gift that is."

Her family notices. Every other sentence, she's talking about a different country like it's nothing.

"It's just incredible that I get to experience so many different places and people. And yeah, I have my eyes wide open walking through."

Can Anyone Do This?

When I asked if anyone can be a nomad, her answer was honest.

"I think the idea of it appeals to a lot of people, but I think living it wouldn't appeal to as many of them."

The idea is romantic. Travel. Freedom. Experiencing the world. But the reality includes things people don't anticipate.

"We are still working. So you have to balance traveling, working, meeting new people. And I think there's a lot more different kind of stresses that come up."

Like what?

"Different languages, trying to communicate with people from that country. Where you need to go for the supermarket, the gym. All mundane things, they can get exhausting, consistently looking for how to live your routine in the new place."

The exhaustion of constantly being new. Constantly figuring out basics. Constantly adapting.

For Kayleigh, it's worth it. The freedom to choose where she is in March and April. The community in co-living spaces. The efficiency that nomadism forces. The life she deliberately built over years.

But she knows it's not for everyone. The idea sounds better than the reality for many people. And that's fine.

When The Researcher Takes Over

Twenty minutes into our conversation, Kayleigh asked if she could ask me questions.

What followed was ten minutes of her interviewing me. The researcher from 2016 fully present. Asking about what attracted me to nomadism, how it's lived up to expectations, what struggles I've faced.

We discovered we're more similar than either of us expected. Both discovered nomadism in 2016-2017. Both based our entire careers around making it possible. Both worked in offices we didn't want to be in to build necessary skills. Both only discovered co-living spaces recently, despite years of being nomadic.

I told her about the struggles with maintaining relationships. How constant movement makes you inherently more selfish. How you're always the one who leaves. How absolute freedom means always choosing yourself.

She asked how I'd reconcile that. Whether I wanted longer-term relationships.

I didn't have an answer.

The full conversation, including everything Kayleigh asked and what I revealed about the cost of constant freedom, is all within this episode.

The Intentional Nomad

Kayleigh represents something rare: someone who didn't fall into nomadism but built towards it deliberately over years.

The long game works. But it comes with pressure. Years of anticipation can make reality disappointing when it doesn't immediately match expectations. Airbnbs isolate. Connection takes time. Community doesn't just happen.

But when you find it, it's everything.

She works twenty hours a week. Lives in castles. Chooses countries like most people choose weekend plans. And when given the chance, she couldn't help reverting to what she does best: asking questions, listening, observing.

Some things don't change. And maybe that's exactly how it should be.

Kayleigh Franks runs digital marketing strategies whilst living nomadically, eight years after spending three months in Chiang Mai studying the lifestyle she'd eventually build. You can hear her full story, including what she asked me when she turned the tables, in: www.ibimalik.com/podcasts/ibis-digital-nomad-stories/episodes/[EPISODE_LINK]

Digital nomads and location-independent professionals featured on Ibi's Digital Nomad Stories podcast share insights into building sustainable remote careers. Listen to all episodes: www.ibimalik.com/podcasts/ibis-digital-nomad-stories

Episode Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:35:13
Ibi
Hello and welcome to ITV's Digital Nomad Stories, featuring real conversations with professionals who've cracked the code to sustainable, nomadic lifestyles. These people aren't beach and Wi-Fi chasers. They're building competitive advantages that traditional employment could never match. Global mobility, income diversification and the freedom to capitalize on opportunities anywhere. I'm Avi Malik, your favorite digital nomad consultant. And today I'm joined on the show by Kailey Franks, someone who didn't stumble into nomadism.

00:00:35:13 - 00:01:02:22
Ibi
She hunted it down. 2016 Chiang Mai. She spent three months interviewing digital nomads for her university research 24 interviews, 90 minutes each studying them like specimens. And then she made it her life's mission to become one. So she played the long game, got an office job, showed up every day, built skills, established foundation. She spent years planning and building.

00:01:03:00 - 00:01:33:04
Ibi
And when she finally did it, it wasn't what she expected. Airbnb's isolated her. The magic she had observed in Chiang Mai was missing until she discovered co-living. Finally, after eight years of chasing it, the thing she'd been building towards was real. This is what happens when you plan for a decade. In reality, it still surprises you. Is Kaylie, you wrote a thesis about being a digital nomad?

00:01:33:06 - 00:01:34:01
Kayleigh
Yeah.

00:01:34:03 - 00:01:35:13
Ibi
Why?

00:01:35:15 - 00:01:46:05
Kayleigh
Why? My bachelor degree was business. Tourism. And those two things were combined. Created to know.

00:01:46:07 - 00:01:48:06
Ibi
What year was it.

00:01:48:08 - 00:01:51:21
Kayleigh
That I wrote in 2015?

00:01:51:23 - 00:01:54:18
Ibi
How did you even know what a digital nomad was in 2015?

00:01:54:20 - 00:02:08:19
Kayleigh
That was the first of its kind. No. My brother, looks really in the scene, and he talked to me about it, and it fascinated me. So I decided to research into it. And Nomad List was up at the time.

00:02:08:21 - 00:02:09:11
Ibi
Really?

00:02:09:12 - 00:02:27:06
Kayleigh
It was and it said the number one hub was Chiang Mai. So I flew to Chiang Mai and spent three months, interviewing digital nomads. I think 24 different interviews were an hour and a half. And yeah, I got to know what it was like to be nomadic.

00:02:27:09 - 00:02:28:08
Ibi
In 2016.

00:02:28:13 - 00:02:29:06
Kayleigh
2015.

00:02:29:07 - 00:02:31:12
Ibi
2015.

00:02:31:14 - 00:02:35:20
Kayleigh
No, I had the idea in 2015, 2016, I actually execute. Yeah.

00:02:35:22 - 00:02:42:06
Ibi
Or, And what kind of stuff that these Nomad obviously they're in. What country is Chiang Mai?

00:02:42:07 - 00:02:43:04
Kayleigh
It was in Thailand.

00:02:43:08 - 00:02:50:17
Ibi
So obviously they were in Thailand. What do you think of Thailand? Nomads.

00:02:50:19 - 00:03:16:07
Kayleigh
Well, at the beginning, it was pretty incredible, like creating this community where there was no co-living or anything like that, which I think is one of the main differences now versus back then. But we did live in a certain apartment where other nomads would live as well. So it kind of had a similar feel where, we were living in our own apartments, but it would run into each other in the corridors and stuff like that.

00:03:16:07 - 00:03:21:13
Kayleigh
And with me at certain cafes for, co-working that day.

00:03:21:15 - 00:03:23:14
Ibi
What do you mean? We.

00:03:23:16 - 00:03:25:23
Kayleigh
Me and the other people in the buildings.

00:03:26:01 - 00:03:27:20
Ibi
So you were a nomad in 2016?

00:03:27:21 - 00:03:34:15
Kayleigh
Well, I wasn't nomad. I wasn't technically a nomad because I wasn't working. I was studying them, but I integrated.

00:03:34:16 - 00:03:35:21
Ibi
You were studying them.

00:03:36:00 - 00:03:37:15
Kayleigh
Yes.

00:03:37:17 - 00:03:44:21
Ibi
What did you observe in their natural habitat?

00:03:44:23 - 00:03:54:04
Kayleigh
That a lot of the catalyst to becoming a nomad. Well, for many of them, it was reading the book before our workweek. Probably not quite. Not as happy.

00:03:54:05 - 00:03:55:20
Ibi
Tim ferriss, Tim ferriss.

00:03:55:20 - 00:03:57:20
Kayleigh
Wow.

00:03:57:22 - 00:04:01:21
Ibi
Really? There's good old Tim.

00:04:01:23 - 00:04:02:14
Kayleigh
Yeah, he's.

00:04:02:14 - 00:04:04:14
Ibi
Talking the original nomads.

00:04:04:16 - 00:04:23:18
Kayleigh
Yeah, but they they didn't agree with a four hour workweek because, I mean, he his concept is like being location independent and having control over that kind of thing. But they were, I guess, skeptical about the four hours per week because actually you have to really put in some work.

00:04:23:20 - 00:04:31:22
Ibi
To spend longer than four hours. And I worked longer than four hours, longer than four hours.

00:04:32:00 - 00:04:33:04
Kayleigh
A week. Yes, I.

00:04:33:04 - 00:04:35:06
Ibi
Got what do you do?

00:04:35:08 - 00:04:45:12
Kayleigh
I do digital marketing. I see. And yeah, I run strategies, implementations, budgets, I kind of thing for meta Google.

00:04:45:12 - 00:04:48:13
Ibi
What do you guys know right now?

00:04:48:15 - 00:04:58:03
Kayleigh
My main clients a universities and. Yeah, I drive leads for them, for new students.

00:04:58:05 - 00:05:00:23
Ibi
Interesting.

00:05:01:01 - 00:05:08:03
Ibi
All right, so you started as a digital nomad researcher, and you research them as part of a bachelor's thesis?

00:05:08:04 - 00:05:09:03
Kayleigh
Yeah.

00:05:09:05 - 00:05:14:09
Ibi
Was it just an excuse to hang out with cool nomad people?

00:05:14:11 - 00:05:32:23
Kayleigh
I mean, I guess it was a bit of an excuse. It was cool to go to Thailand and understand, but, yeah, it became my life's mission after that to actually become one myself. So I chose based my whole career on how I could choose something that would allow me to become location independent.

00:05:33:05 - 00:05:34:18
Ibi
So you are pure blooded.

00:05:34:19 - 00:05:35:21
Kayleigh
I am a pure blood.

00:05:35:23 - 00:05:38:08
Ibi
You're a pure blooded nomad.

00:05:38:10 - 00:05:56:06
Kayleigh
Respect through and through. But I didn't do it for a few years. I decided to build my career in, in a, I guess, location restrictive job so that I had the skills to be able to do what I do now.

00:05:56:08 - 00:06:00:18
Ibi
Through that. What does it mean? I know what you mean, but help us understand what that means.

00:06:00:20 - 00:06:25:22
Kayleigh
Well, I decided to work for an agency in Sydney, to be able to build up my skills. But they had to have me in the office every day, because, that doesn't align with me at all. But I knew I thought it was a good way to establish a foundation that would allow me to travel at my own will and then and then Covid hit.

00:06:26:00 - 00:06:48:18
Kayleigh
So I was restricted then. And then after that, I was like, there is nothing stopping me now. So I quit my job. I went out on my own. And yeah, it actually well, I did that a year prior and it was all working out really well. And then I was able to afford myself and my partner to travel the world.

00:06:48:20 - 00:06:50:09
Kayleigh
Wow.

00:06:50:11 - 00:06:51:07
Ibi
I like that.

00:06:51:09 - 00:06:55:13
Kayleigh
Yeah, that's super cool.

00:06:55:15 - 00:07:02:18
Ibi
What do you think of nomadism as a career choice?

00:07:02:20 - 00:07:04:00
Kayleigh
What do you mean.

00:07:04:02 - 00:07:26:08
Ibi
Like, you meet a lot of people who fall into being a nomad. You've meet a lot of people who are like, oh, that's a great thing. Maybe that I could do. You meet very few people who are like, this is what I want. I'm going to go and get it. I'm going to make it happen. I have a structured plan for X number here as well.

00:07:26:08 - 00:07:44:12
Ibi
I'm going to work in Sydney and do X, Y, Z and get my skills up, and then I'm going to do it. Very few people do that. How do you feel about that whole journey. Like it's a very different way of thinking about the nomad existence. You've set yourself up for it. Deliberately and in a calculated way.

00:07:44:14 - 00:07:48:03
Ibi
Do you think it's good. Do you think it's bad. Does it serve you.

00:07:48:05 - 00:08:12:02
Kayleigh
To be honest with you? I obviously spent so many years anticipating this kind of lifestyle, and then I started doing it around, bit in Europe, but mainly in, like South America. And I actually didn't enjoy the way I did it. And I was like, what have I done? My whole life I've trained well, I've worked towards it and it's not what I expected.

00:08:12:03 - 00:08:44:02
Kayleigh
Why? Because and I know why I decided to travel, renting out Airbnbs. So it really restricts who you interact with, for one. And I think for me, a lot of the beauty to nomadism is actually connecting with people and similar mindsets and that kind of thing, but it really isolates you when you're an Airbnb. So unless you're going to like events, the co-working places are setting up or maybe going to co-working space.

00:08:44:04 - 00:09:09:10
Kayleigh
Yeah. There's so many ways to be nomadic. I don't think that was the right way for me. Whereas now, obviously being more introduced into the co-living co-working space, you get to spend time doing really things that you would never think of doing yourself. And skill sharing. And I think opening your mind to like how so many other people think, rather than being more isolated.

00:09:09:10 - 00:09:37:18
Kayleigh
I think when I when I was studying, that was a big part of the community back then, they really struggled with connecting. Because obviously you're not at home at all. And so connection with people is a big part of feeling like you belong in an area. And one way that you can combat that is actually going to the same cafes every day so that, you know, the the staff there.

00:09:37:20 - 00:09:57:06
Kayleigh
Like for example, I used to go in Thailand, I went to this one local place every day. By the end of my a few months there, I had one. I this like old woman who would hug me every. She wouldn't speak English, but she would sit down with me, chat with me, and then hug me every day. And it just makes you feel like you belong.

00:09:57:07 - 00:10:20:01
Kayleigh
Which is a big part of the pain of being nomadic. I think one thing that stayed the same from then and now is that they always traveled, I did in a month period. So that used, let's say, Chiang Mai as a hub that stay there for a couple of months and then go away for one month and then stay specific locations a month at a time and then return back.

00:10:20:01 - 00:10:44:03
Kayleigh
That's one way of, feeling that you still have a home away from home. But the other thing right now, I've noticed a lot of people say something similar where you only have you're only able to connect with people to the depth that you're looking for after ten days. So if you're only in one place for, yeah, a week or something, you don't get the same sort of experiences.

00:10:44:05 - 00:10:58:13
Kayleigh
Plus you're working the whole time, so it gives you less time to connect. So yeah, traveling months at a time, I think is really important for this community to really thrive.

00:10:58:15 - 00:11:03:03
Ibi
We're more similar than I might care to admit.

00:11:03:05 - 00:11:05:14
Kayleigh
So why? What makes you think that?

00:11:05:15 - 00:11:10:17
Ibi
I was also 2017 when I discovered the nomadic existence.

00:11:10:17 - 00:11:11:13
Kayleigh
Oh, really?

00:11:11:15 - 00:11:28:12
Ibi
Yeah. And I based my whole life and career choices around it, and I structured myself to get the skills I needed in London. And then I hit the road, and I only discovered code of things in November 2024. Did you discover codings? I mean your.

00:11:28:12 - 00:11:30:15
Kayleigh
First is my first.

00:11:30:17 - 00:11:37:09
Ibi
So it took you from 2016. It took you from 2016 until 2025.

00:11:37:11 - 00:11:47:17
Kayleigh
I mean official code living I've lived in places where people are working and we have like common spaces. But what's the definition of a co-living?

00:11:47:18 - 00:11:50:06
Ibi
Let's not get into that. I have a whole video and I.

00:11:50:06 - 00:11:51:23
Kayleigh
Know.

00:11:52:01 - 00:11:52:23
Ibi
It's a feeling I.

00:11:52:23 - 00:11:54:01
Kayleigh
Saw that.

00:11:54:03 - 00:11:54:20
Ibi
It's a feeling.

00:11:55:01 - 00:11:55:18
Kayleigh
Okay.

00:11:55:19 - 00:11:56:18
Ibi
Did you get the feeling?

00:11:56:23 - 00:12:23:00
Kayleigh
Yeah. Here. Yeah. Oh, my God, it's been so incredible. The connections I've made, the laughter, the like, aliveness, the creativity, the inspiration, the mind opening challenges that I've had, the space that people give in emotionally. I just think it's been a life changing.

00:12:23:00 - 00:12:28:16
Ibi
Almost all that happened in the last month.

00:12:28:18 - 00:12:32:19
Ibi
The same last month that I had.

00:12:32:21 - 00:12:38:18
Kayleigh
Yeah. You just got to open your eyes and make sure that you create the magic every single day.

00:12:38:20 - 00:12:40:11
Ibi
What is the magic?

00:12:40:13 - 00:12:43:10
Kayleigh
The magic is what you feel inside of you.

00:12:43:15 - 00:12:44:03
Ibi
The feeling.

00:12:44:05 - 00:13:01:12
Kayleigh
The feeling. Feeling of aliveness. That's the magic. And I think newness really does help create that, obviously. But you can also choose to create it yourself on a daily basis.

00:13:01:14 - 00:13:24:11
Ibi
Let's go back to the nomadic existence. So do you think now that you've experienced a co-living, it's a sustainable form of living this nomadic lifestyle that you have been working towards for nine years or ten years?

00:13:24:12 - 00:14:11:05
Kayleigh
I think it's much more sustainable than the way I was saying it. Go for like that didn't actually appeal to me at all. What kind of felt empty. And now, having experienced co-living this way and I the I also had this feeling previously, even though technically it wasn't a co-living, that I definitely could see myself doing it in months, like one month or one month on, I would still like a base where I go back to and like have more of a homely feel and then, like, I have an apartment in in Spain, so I'll go back there for like a month or two and then go to another co-living.

00:14:11:05 - 00:14:16:19
Kayleigh
And that's, I think, how I visualize the, the best way for me.

00:14:16:21 - 00:14:25:23
Ibi
Interesting. When I discovered co-living in November 2024, I did exclusively co-living for just under a year.

00:14:26:01 - 00:14:27:00
Kayleigh
Wow.

00:14:27:02 - 00:14:29:12
Ibi
One month on one month, one month.

00:14:29:13 - 00:14:32:19
Kayleigh
Attack. How was that?

00:14:32:21 - 00:14:35:14
Ibi
Very intense.

00:14:35:16 - 00:14:39:21
Kayleigh
Very intense. And staying co-living the whole time.

00:14:39:23 - 00:14:57:11
Ibi
I was one month on, one month off for six months. Then the last three months, I was, three months on. And then after that, I realized one month in a co-living wasn't enough. Because even though a month seems like a long time, it's really not.

00:14:57:12 - 00:14:59:16
Kayleigh
Oh, yeah. This month's gone so fast.

00:14:59:18 - 00:15:00:09
Ibi

00:15:00:11 - 00:15:06:07
Kayleigh
And I loved every second of it and I would extend it as well. But not possible.

00:15:06:09 - 00:15:34:14
Ibi
Fair enough. Yeah. It's actually a very interesting observation because people like we talked before about how ten days is the minimum you need to connect with people. And a month could be a good amount of time. I can see a month working, but I feel like as a sustainable lifestyle choice, changing everything every month is an absolutely intense activity.

00:15:34:16 - 00:15:49:06
Kayleigh
I would definitely agree, especially mixing that in with working. Yes. Efficiently. Productively. It is. Yeah. It's very difficult to actually keep that productivity up if you're constantly changing.

00:15:49:08 - 00:15:53:23
Ibi
How do you maintain such a high productivity while you're traveling?

00:15:54:01 - 00:16:14:09
Kayleigh
I make sure I have a routine. So I think it's really important that, well, I work with Australia, so I get up quite early. But I make sure I have a routine before I start work to keep a clear mind and then, yes, a certain amount of hours. Otherwise. Okay. The day gets away from me.

00:16:14:09 - 00:16:25:00
Kayleigh
You're always surrounded by people and fun things to do. So you have to make sure that you give yourself enough time to actually do the work that's required.

00:16:25:02 - 00:16:39:06
Ibi
How much do you work? Like, I don't know, 35 hours a week or four hours a day, or 6.5 hours a day on average.

00:16:39:07 - 00:16:50:19
Kayleigh
On average, I would say five hours a day, four days a week. I don't believe in a five day workweek. I think we need a bit more play in our lives.

00:16:50:21 - 00:16:52:01
Ibi

00:16:52:03 - 00:16:53:00
Kayleigh
Yeah.

00:16:53:02 - 00:17:06:03
Ibi
I actually think personally that something like five hours a day, four days a week is actually pretty much what, a 9 to 5 Monday to Friday an office employee works.

00:17:06:03 - 00:17:12:06
Kayleigh
Oh for sure. There's no way that like any more than that is efficient at all. There's no way.

00:17:12:07 - 00:17:17:23
Ibi
I agree. Yeah. It's interesting.

00:17:18:01 - 00:17:28:21
Kayleigh
I almost feel like being an employee at a location restricted place is like being in a time prison.

00:17:28:23 - 00:17:30:05
Ibi
Describe that.

00:17:30:07 - 00:17:53:13
Kayleigh
Well you don't necessarily need to be there. Imagine if you finish your work you don't need to be there. But you have to pretend that you, like still are doing things when you're probably not and you're wasting so much time. And then you learn how to you, you become, habitual with wasting time and scrolling or doing inefficient things.

00:17:53:13 - 00:18:04:18
Kayleigh
So then, yeah, I think it influences your life to become a bit more unproductive overall.

00:18:04:20 - 00:18:05:16
Kayleigh
Strong opinions.

00:18:05:17 - 00:18:08:21
Ibi
Do you think digital nomadism is the solution?

00:18:08:23 - 00:18:16:02
Kayleigh
I think it's one solution. I think company structures do need to change.

00:18:16:04 - 00:18:19:18
Kayleigh
But I think.

00:18:19:19 - 00:18:52:09
Kayleigh
Digital nomadism kind of gives you a reason not to stay. Well, other than you're not in a time prison because of the location, but there's actually something exciting most days. So you feel like you want to get the work done and be efficient and within a certain amount of time so that you can actually spend the rest of your evening not watching Netflix, but actually interacting or living life to its fullest.

00:18:52:11 - 00:18:56:01
Ibi
How does it feel to have made it?

00:18:56:03 - 00:18:58:04
Kayleigh
What do you mean made it?

00:18:58:06 - 00:19:27:00
Ibi
Well, it was 2016, 2015. You heard about these digital nomads, then you went to Thailand and you did your thing. Then you observe them in their natural habitats, grazing in coffee shops and writing whatever blog posts, whatever they did. And then you build yourself up and you moved over to Sydney and you got everything, got your skill set and everything's ready and, you know, perfected.

00:19:27:02 - 00:19:47:09
Ibi
And now you are living in a French castle, working Australian hours, with freedom of location, to do what you like. And considering whether this is something you can do a want to do, it sounds like you have that freedom that you have desired. You're working five days, four days a week, five hours days. You've made it, babe.

00:19:47:11 - 00:19:47:22
Kayleigh
Yeah.

00:19:47:23 - 00:19:50:23
Ibi
How does it feel?

00:19:51:01 - 00:20:12:08
Kayleigh
Wow. You saying all of that really brought up a lot of joy in me? I really loved how I just. I guess I just never really stopped to think about it that much. I just think this is what I need to be doing, and that's it. And. No, but I love. I'm so grateful for my life. Honestly, I feel like I'm one of the luckiest people.

00:20:12:10 - 00:20:45:08
Kayleigh
I mean, also, you create your own luck, but I do feel like I'm very lucky and grateful for being able to like this year, choosing. I'm like, where do I want to be in March and April? Like, what country do I want to be in? It's just like, what a gift that is. Yeah. And talking to to, like my family in that they're like, well, every other sentence you talk about a different country like like it's nothing.

00:20:45:10 - 00:20:55:08
Kayleigh
Like. Yeah, it's just incredible that I get to experience so many different places and people. And yeah, I have my eyes wide open walking through.

00:20:55:10 - 00:20:59:12
Ibi
That is the digital nomad reality, is it not?

00:20:59:14 - 00:21:20:16
Kayleigh
Yes. I mean, that's a good part of it. There's also the other side of it where it's difficult changing environments all the time. You might come across more difficult people than you would in your day to day, and that's maybe not true, because I think people are more in a similar.

00:21:20:18 - 00:21:22:00
Kayleigh
Sort of mind frame.

00:21:22:02 - 00:21:30:08
Ibi

00:21:30:10 - 00:21:34:10
Ibi
Do you think anyone can do it?

00:21:34:12 - 00:21:44:15
Kayleigh
I think the idea of it appeals to a lot of people, but I think living it wouldn't appeal to as many of them.

00:21:44:17 - 00:21:56:04
Ibi
Why? What would they find that they didn't like? What would the idea tell them that then what to expect? And then what would their reality show them that they didn't like?

00:21:56:06 - 00:22:29:01
Kayleigh
I think the idea of moving countries and like experiencing the world is just obviously that's what a lot of people want. And that sounds really exciting and thrilling. But the other side is that we are still working. And, so you have to balance traveling, working, meeting new people. And I think there's a lot more different kind of stresses that come up that may not suit someone else.

00:22:29:03 - 00:22:34:20
Ibi
Name some of the stresses and how you deal with them.

00:22:34:22 - 00:22:37:14
Kayleigh
Some of the stresses.

00:22:37:16 - 00:22:58:20
Ibi
You mentioned, some of them, the constant meeting new people, the constant traveling. There's obviously the the main stresses that nomads often come across, like loneliness, productivity, fear of missing, this kind of stuff. I think this is all fairly common stuff. Is there anything else that you think are some of the main stresses, and how do you deal with these things?

00:22:58:22 - 00:23:26:11
Kayleigh
I mean, it's exhausting, like different languages, trying to communicate with people from that country. What the, where you need to go for the supermarket, the gym. Like all mundane things, they can get exhausting consistently looking for how to live your routine in the new place.

00:23:26:13 - 00:23:27:06
Ibi
And how do you do it?

00:23:27:07 - 00:23:28:22
Kayleigh
Can I ask you questions?

00:23:29:00 - 00:23:31:12
Ibi
Yeah, you can.

00:23:31:14 - 00:23:36:00
Kayleigh
What attracted you to becoming nomadic in 2017?

00:23:36:02 - 00:24:06:11
Ibi
I listen to a podcast called World Wanderers. I was working in the HSBC Tower in Canary Wharf in London. HSBC is obviously a big, massive bank that treats its employees like numbers. And I was. Waking up every day, leaving for the office at six. Getting back at eight. Sleeping. Just, you know, to wake up the next day and do the same thing and it was exhausting and intense.

00:24:06:12 - 00:24:28:11
Ibi
And at some point I was doing some work and listen to this podcast about these two people that were traveling through Asia, and they were writing blogs and making money online. And I was like, I want to do that. So I started setting up my life in that way. And I started, really drilling down on location independence.

00:24:28:11 - 00:24:49:00
Ibi
And I had a five step plan of how I was going to ask my director, to let me be location independent. And when I'd finally put all those things together and jump through all of the hoops that I create for myself, he very simply said, no, it's not in my model for people to be working remotely.

00:24:49:01 - 00:24:51:06
Ibi
So I couldn't launch my own business.

00:24:51:07 - 00:24:52:12
Kayleigh
What did you launch?

00:24:52:14 - 00:24:53:21
Ibi
An Egyptian drum company.

00:24:54:00 - 00:24:58:07
Kayleigh
Oh, that's right.

00:24:58:09 - 00:25:00:19
Kayleigh
So you need.

00:25:00:21 - 00:25:01:16
Ibi
I am unique.

00:25:01:17 - 00:25:09:04
Kayleigh
And what attracted you to that lifestyle? Like.

00:25:09:06 - 00:25:16:04
Ibi
Honestly, what attracted me to the lifestyle was that it was on my own terms.

00:25:16:06 - 00:25:16:18
Kayleigh
Yeah.

00:25:16:20 - 00:25:39:12
Ibi
That everything existed on my own terms. Because, growing up in a specific system, you kind of get used to just going through the process. You go to the right school, you go to the right uni, you start the right job, you do the right stuff, and then you have the right life and you marry the right person.

00:25:39:12 - 00:25:46:19
Ibi
You buy the right house. And it was all pretty much set up for me to do all of that. But I wanted some choice.

00:25:46:21 - 00:25:48:06
Ibi
That's what attracted me to it.

00:25:48:08 - 00:25:51:18
Kayleigh
And do you think it's lived up to your expectations?

00:25:51:20 - 00:25:55:07
Ibi
Yes, very much so.

00:25:55:09 - 00:26:03:04
Kayleigh
Very much so. The only downside is that you didn't predict.

00:26:03:06 - 00:26:27:20
Ibi
The struggles of maintaining relationships, both friendships and romantic interests. I find harder than I thought I would find them. The work side has always come well to me. I, I I'm good at that side of things.

00:26:27:22 - 00:26:28:15
Ibi
Yeah.

00:26:28:17 - 00:26:34:23
Kayleigh
And how do you feel it's impacted you? The struggles with maintaining friendships and relationships?

00:26:35:00 - 00:27:18:04
Ibi
I think with the constant moving, the constant, prioritization of oneself, you inherently become more selfish, that you have absolute freedom to pick your own path. And with that freedom, you are effectively always choosing yourself. As the nomad, you are the one that leaves. For example, if you go and move to the city and you're in, let's say Berlin, you're in Berlin, you go and you meet people and you make friends.

00:27:18:06 - 00:27:40:01
Ibi
But they are Berlin people and you are a nomad. So at some point you leave, you choose yourself. You're like, okay, I've set my life up in such a way. The same works with romantic relationships. You go somewhere, you meet someone, you fall in love. But at the end of the day, you always ask yourself, I have absolute freedom to go anywhere I want.

00:27:40:01 - 00:27:48:20
Ibi
Do I want to be in this one place right now? And as a committed nomad, you may often say no and leave.

00:27:48:22 - 00:28:00:11
Kayleigh
And how do you think you're going to? Do you want to come back that do you want to have longer term relationships?

00:28:00:13 - 00:28:04:12
Ibi
I don't know the answer to to be honest. I have not yet worked it out.

00:28:04:12 - 00:28:15:20
Kayleigh
Like, does it impact you? I suppose in a way that you'd rather it not?

00:28:15:22 - 00:28:24:23
Ibi
Sometimes humans make decisions which we don't know if they're the right decision or the wrong decision for us.

00:28:25:01 - 00:28:39:06
Ibi
And when you constantly make those decisions over a period of years, they start to build up into something. And the more that they build up.

00:28:39:07 - 00:28:43:02
Ibi
The further you get down that whole.

00:28:43:04 - 00:29:27:06
Ibi
And you still never really know if you're making the right decision or the wrong decision. But now you're so deep into a certain home you don't even know what's right or wrong anymore. So I would say for most of my life, I genuinely thought to myself, I can't be in a relationship because I want to be going somewhere or traveling this and that, and I'm still finding myself at exactly that point, having tried a few things, having, you know, experimented and having, having my heart broken many, many, many times, sometimes much, much stronger than other times.

00:29:27:07 - 00:29:36:08
Ibi
And I still don't know the answer. And I still don't know whether every time I make the decision it's the right decision or the wrong decision.

00:29:36:10 - 00:29:38:04
Kayleigh
Is it worth being nomadic?

00:29:38:06 - 00:29:45:12
Ibi
You. Yeah, because I get freedom of decision, which is what I wanted in the first place.

00:29:45:14 - 00:29:56:18
Kayleigh
And that's I feel the same. And I feel like that's the only way to really feel liberated from the structure of society.

00:29:56:20 - 00:30:02:06
Ibi
Then technically, we're at a time.

00:30:02:08 - 00:30:05:15
Kayleigh
You're welcome. Free interviewing you.

00:30:05:17 - 00:30:06:23
Ibi
Plus, the pleasure doing.