00:00:00:00 - 00:00:38:22
Ibi
Hello and welcome to Ibi's Digital Nomad Stories, featuring real conversations with professionals who've cracked the code to sustainable, nomadic lifestyles. These people aren't beach and Wi-Fi chasers. They're building competitive advantages that traditional employment could never match. Global mobility, income diversification, and the freedom to capitalize on opportunities anywhere. I'm Ibi Malik, your favorite digital nomad consultant, and today I'm joined on the show by Katia Dimova, someone who proved that the best strategy is no strategy.
00:00:39:00 - 00:01:04:07
Ibi
She doesn't plan, she responds. She started with some small volunteer work and ended up coordinating refugee relief across three countries. Most people would call that chaos. Katia calls it Thursday. See, she is comfortable in being uncomfortable. She hitchhiked alone across India and didn't realize it was remarkable until she saw the look on other people's faces when she told them.
00:01:04:09 - 00:01:32:22
Ibi
And if you ask her, what do you do? She would need half an hour to explain. Even though most of us know her for running Chateau Co-living in Normandy, one of Europe's most sought after co-living spaces, literally a co-living in a castle. This is a masterclass in showing up and letting the world reshape itself around you. When you stop planning and start reacting, you become the catalyst for everything that matters.
00:01:33:00 - 00:01:49:07
Ibi
Here's Katia. Katia, Katia, Katia. It's us. We're together in the castle again. And you know what I feel like I know so much about you, but also so little about you at the same time. And I've had so many stories and so many rumors about you.
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Katia
So many rumors about.
00:01:50:22 - 00:01:54:05
Me, so many rumors spreading rumors about me.
00:01:54:07 - 00:02:11:10
Ibi
They're actually good rumors. No, because then it's like the whole digital nomad story. And then like, you worked in operations and then the whole, like, you did this volunteering and you did this social work story, and then you opened a co-living story, and I don't I don't even know how many stories, and I don't know where to start.
00:02:11:10 - 00:02:26:15
Ibi
But I think the easiest thing is just chronological, like when and I don't know, I think it must have been, what, 2007 or something. Now, when did you start your digital nomad journey and how and why?
00:02:26:17 - 00:02:45:20
Katia
It was a bit, so it's hard to put an actual year on it because it started very gradually and it was not at all planned to be like, I was not like, oh, I want to be a digital nomad, I want to be traveling. It kind of happened a little bit naturally. And because it was not a thing at the time.
00:02:45:22 - 00:02:47:07
Okay. You know.
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Ibi
And this is pre-COVID, right. This is like way.
00:02:50:00 - 00:02:51:13
Katia
Way pre-COVID. Very.
00:02:51:13 - 00:02:52:22
Ibi
Okay. How far pre-COVID.
00:02:53:03 - 00:02:55:12
Katia
Oh don't ask. A long time.
00:02:55:14 - 00:02:59:11
A long time. Okay. It's a long, long time ago.
00:02:59:13 - 00:03:26:07
Katia
So I was traveling already a lot for work when I was having my corporate job. And also like long travels, like for a couple of months somewhere here and there. So that was already like it was not normal, but it was already like this moving around for a few months in different places that you don't know in a much more comfortable way, of course, with the company, apartment and driver and all of.
00:03:26:07 - 00:03:35:07
Those things that you do have and things that you appreciate later. Hardly.
00:03:35:09 - 00:03:39:11
Ibi
Yeah. If only I had a driver now to take me around, they could drop me off at the restaurant.
00:03:39:11 - 00:03:44:01
Katia
To take me around. But you know like when you travel for work someone is waiting for you there for them.
00:03:44:01 - 00:03:47:08
They take you to your place and yeah.
00:03:47:08 - 00:03:47:20
Katia
Then it.
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Changed drastically.
00:03:51:06 - 00:03:58:22
Ibi
But then also, maybe you thought to yourself, okay, you know, I mean, it's not that hard to organize all these travels. I can do it myself. I don't need them to organize it for me.
00:03:58:22 - 00:04:26:22
Katia
Or to organize at all. It was just not. It was just not at all at the time in my mindset that this is something, you know, nobody was doing that. They didn't even know what it was. It was just like it gave me like, kind of flavor of not being in one place, which was great. And then once you have to go back and be in one place with the same, like corporate building, whatever job, it was never, like too boring.
00:04:26:22 - 00:04:34:02
Katia
But to like being in one place with the same people all the time. You start to have like.
00:04:34:04 - 00:04:35:21
This itch a little bit.
00:04:35:23 - 00:04:58:05
Ibi
And I know. Okay. So I mean location independence. Yeah. Right. I think that's that's the keyword that a lot of, of and a lot of our listeners, a lot of the digital nomad community are chasing, right, being free to do that. So are we saying that like even in the corporate role that you had, you did feel that location independence and you wanted to recreate it.
00:04:58:07 - 00:05:19:22
Katia
A little bit? Yeah. Because, you know, I was always one of those people that are like, why do you have to be at 9:00 in the office? Why can't I work at home with my coffee until 11 and then go to the office because I'm not the morning person. I don't want to commute. I don't want to, you know, all these old school ways were so not working for me.
00:05:20:00 - 00:05:31:09
Katia
And also when you travel, when you have a lot of business trips, you kind of have this freedom because nobody is expecting from you to be at the office. So it was kind of claimed.
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Illegally in a way.
00:05:35:00 - 00:05:59:12
Katia
And then most people, what they do is they get from it, like later they get familiar with this location independent life, and they're like, oh, I want to quit my corporate job and to start something of my own so that they can have this freedom. In my case, it didn't happen this way. I decided to quit my corporate job for other reasons and to start my own company.
00:05:59:12 - 00:06:31:07
Katia
And then the mindset behind was the, the company will be based in Istanbul and all of that. But in the beginning, like the first, the first months before, like when we were just like, me and my partner and one more person, we were working remotely. We didn't need at the time to spend for an office and to go through all the admin stuff and difficulties to start in a non-European country.
00:06:31:09 - 00:06:51:00
Katia
So we're like, yeah, until it's time to until it's time to have an office and to hire more people, why don't we just, like, do whatever and just live wherever? And then the question was because a lot of the clients were in Istanbul, but also for visa reasons and all of that. You can't be there all the time.
00:06:51:02 - 00:07:01:08
Katia
So basically I just opened the map and I'm like, oh, what is a cool place that is close to Istanbul, close to Europe? And it has seaside, the nice weather.
00:07:01:10 - 00:07:07:04
It's Greece, let's let's go to Greece for a bit, okay? And this is.
00:07:07:04 - 00:07:21:23
Katia
How it happened. So basically I was driving every week to Istanbul, almost, and the plan was not to be a total nomad. The plan was not to be totally location independent. And because it was not a thing at the time, like, not that I didn't.
00:07:21:23 - 00:07:24:15
Want it, it just never crossed my mind that.
00:07:24:15 - 00:07:25:23
Ibi
It's.
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Possible.
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Katia
So what.
00:07:28:06 - 00:07:29:17
Happened was that.
00:07:29:18 - 00:07:59:16
Katia
I was always with the scarcity mindset that soon we will have an office and will be based in one place. So let's now travel as much as possible, while we still can. So then that was happening. Working remotely, traveling to all the flights possible to like that are connected to the nearest airports. Drove around a lot. And then slowly, slowly you start to question yourself.
00:07:59:16 - 00:08:21:03
Katia
So why why do we need an office? Like why do we have to, why can't we just do this and and just live wherever and work with people. The team was also, we were a company with like people that are very senior, very small team but very senior team and people that, I worked with before that I knew.
00:08:21:05 - 00:08:41:03
Katia
So you don't have anyone new to train or any like heavy processes or something like that. There's just a bunch of people that know what they are doing. We know how we work together. So then one of the girls that was working with me, she bought a house in the village and moved to a village because she's like, oh, we're working this way.
00:08:41:03 - 00:09:00:10
Katia
Why should I live in the city? It's expensive. I don't want to live in the city. I want to be near my garden. So she moved there. Then the rest of us, like we kept traveling. And then at some point, it just didn't make sense anymore to think about the traditional company in the traditional ways.
00:09:00:13 - 00:09:01:03
Ibi
00:09:01:05 - 00:09:14:01
Katia
The thing that was extremely schizophrenic, though, was that we were working for very big corporate clients, and at the time, it would be extremely not serious if you don't have an office.
00:09:14:03 - 00:09:15:23
Ibi
Yeah, you don't have a presence.
00:09:15:23 - 00:09:34:04
Katia
So you kind of, you know, the clients would never come to meet us, we would always go to meet them. So it just didn't make sense. But anyway, we were kind of keeping it, not lying, but not saying.
00:09:34:04 - 00:09:44:01
That we have an office. It's like avoiding the "where are you?" So we are based in, oh, we're based everywhere, which is true. Yeah.
00:09:44:03 - 00:09:45:00
Ibi
Okay, I love.
00:09:45:00 - 00:09:46:10
This, that was fun.
00:09:46:10 - 00:10:12:17
Ibi
Yeah, I love this, I love this. Here's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking that a lot of the people that are typically the nomad type. Right? They're solopreneurs. They're people who are by themselves, who are working for themselves, either they're earlier in their stage or they're professionals who are fully qualified in their profession. Obviously they're accountants, they're lawyers, whatever they want to be, but they are just themselves earning enough money to live a digital nomad life.
00:10:12:23 - 00:10:13:16
00:10:13:18 - 00:10:32:01
Ibi
I think you are slightly different. You have a team around you right now. You're talking now about a pre-COVID time where you were already running a remote team. It's a it's a it's a different way of thinking. It's a different way of being. It's not so much selling just your skills for money. Rather it's having a company. It's having employees.
00:10:32:03 - 00:10:46:06
Ibi
How do you manage teams in such a remote space? If you were to go back, what do you think that you did wrong or could have done better back then or alternatively, what did you think worked really well that you take from that time?
00:10:46:08 - 00:11:12:18
Katia
Good question. I think already back then, like managing a team, yeah, kind of, but also like a very small team. It's not like the companies that are remote first and that have big, big teams to manage and need a lot of systems and supplies and a lot of like, rules and stuff like that. In my case, it was much easier.
00:11:12:18 - 00:11:43:05
Katia
First of all, I mean easier and not so much. It was first of all, because the team were people that I used to work for years before with. So we knew each other very well. We were very much on a friendly basis. I knew how they work. I could trust them. Totally. Same for them. We didn't need to have, like, any operations in place, like everybody knew.
00:11:43:11 - 00:12:07:19
Katia
Also, it was like each person was responsible for something. So there were not two people kind of doing the same thing or like working on the same project, but everyone knowing very clearly what is the role. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Absolute separation of tasks. So everybody knew what is the role in a project and how the role connects to the others.
00:12:07:23 - 00:12:33:12
Katia
Like how if you don't do your part, the next person cannot do their part and the next person cannot do their part. And I think knowing each other, it just made it very easy. And the fact that all of them were senior, like nobody was learning on the job, that was. Yeah. You know, just so things were just going.
00:12:33:14 - 00:12:51:00
Katia
But then the challenges were that at the time, nothing was, there were no tools for remote work whatsoever. Like we didn't have zoom, we didn't have like, we were even searching on messenger, like we were talking work stuff on messenger.
00:12:51:04 - 00:12:51:19
00:12:51:21 - 00:12:57:00
Ibi
Oh yes. In the olden days where every. Yes, I fully understand.
00:12:57:02 - 00:13:03:01
It's totally. Yeah. No. Like no proper record of our discussions.
00:13:03:01 - 00:13:27:02
Katia
No. Like it just worked like magic because we knew each other and we could trust each other. But if you need like a proper documentation of who said what and who did what and how, like if if something goes wrong and you need to go back on it, that wouldn't have been possible. So yeah, that could have been a big problem if it happened.
00:13:27:04 - 00:13:43:10
Katia
The lack of tools. Yeah I think also the lack of reliable internet, like the amount of times when I had to submit massive files to a client on the day of the deadline, and I'm somewhere in Lebanon and there's an electricity.
00:13:43:10 - 00:13:54:16
Cut and there is no internet, and then I have to go into Lebanon, like, look for internet, I don't know, like super stressed. Yeah. Because you don't have the backup.
00:13:54:16 - 00:14:15:09
Katia
Like you don't have the backup server. Also with like, also with the team, like we were such a small scale and such like almost like friends working together. So we didn't have the proper servers, we didn't have the proper spacing. I don't remember if there was Google Drive. Probably there was. It was not that long ago.
00:14:15:09 - 00:14:22:23
Katia
I don't remember what we were using for storage. I do remember that they had to transfer to me like massive files.
00:14:23:00 - 00:14:36:07
It was like super slow and it was so stressful. Sometimes. So yeah, in that sense, like looking back at it now, in that sense it was super unprofessional the way it was executed.
00:14:36:07 - 00:14:50:07
Katia
It it always worked really well with the clients and the final result, like they didn't know what is behind the scenes, but we were absolutely unequipped with any proper tools to work remotely.
00:14:50:09 - 00:15:22:16
Ibi
So I'm hearing a few things. I'm hearing a few topics come through. I'm hearing the benefit of hiring people who are experienced and who know what they're doing in the remote world. I'm hearing the benefits of having the right toolsets and the right infrastructure around you. Yeah. And one thing I'm hearing, which I've heard from you before in a different context, is not letting the client see the pain behind.
00:15:22:18 - 00:15:28:15
Ibi
I feel like this is one of your core philosophies, and I'm wondering if you could talk about it a little bit more.
00:15:28:17 - 00:15:33:14
Katia
Yeah, in a way. What? What do you want me to say exactly about it?
00:15:33:15 - 00:16:00:05
Ibi
No. In the co-living space. Yeah. In the co-living world that you're in right now, we've often heard about not letting the client see how much effort has gone behind the scenes into making something happen. You're talking, so that's that's now present day. We're talking about the past, however many years ago, pre-COVID that is. And we're talking about the same thing, not letting clients know.
00:16:00:07 - 00:16:11:02
Ibi
And even even if you take that example for digital nomads, they think it's easy to just like walk up and do your own thing, but they don't realize how much work goes behind the scenes.
00:16:11:02 - 00:16:47:01
Katia
So there is a lot going on behind the scenes in every context. I think it's part of the, you know, no matter in which context, the client pays for the final result, for the co-living experience, for whatever other services you are providing, unless if the client is paying you to know, when you're consulting them, to know what it really takes and to know what it actually entails.
00:16:47:01 - 00:17:19:10
Katia
If they want a specific deliverable, you do, I don't know, branding, marketing, whatever design, packaging, you have to deliver. They don't need to know what is happening behind. And that was part of the like. They didn't know that we are such a small team. They didn't know that we are distributed and working remotely.
00:17:19:12 - 00:17:49:21
Katia
But they were receiving a good result and something that, that was because I came from a big design agency before, big International one. And I was a commercial director there, and when I left and started my own agency, I never said that we are a small team. Like I never said to anyone that we are a big team, but people kind of assumed that if someone on my level is starting something, it will be comparable to the company that I worked for before.
00:17:49:23 - 00:17:50:17
Katia
I never said.
00:17:50:17 - 00:17:52:04
That, you know, dishonest.
00:17:52:04 - 00:18:15:13
Katia
And and the truth is that a lot of people don't know that when you work in this context, let's say service agencies, like when you work with the big international agency, it's never the senior people that work on your project. It's always the juniors, it's always the interns that do the hard work behind. And then the senior person is just like yes or no and approving.
00:18:15:13 - 00:18:36:15
Katia
They don't actually work on your strategy. And this is what a lot of clients don't know. And we were working for big, massive international clients and what they were getting as a benefit was that they have a team of 4 or 5 people, but they're all senior and they all work on their strategy, they all work on their project, and it does.
00:18:36:15 - 00:18:51:08
Katia
And it's also super fast and flexible because we don't have all the levels of approval or the levels of decision making that you would have in a big company. So this was something that was giving us a lot of leverage. We were super fast, reactive.
00:18:51:08 - 00:18:52:12
Ibi
Reactive, agile teams.
00:18:52:12 - 00:19:08:18
Katia
Absolutely. Yeah. It's it's not a question of like lying and pretending that you are a big, it's a question of like what you deliver, and they don't need to know that we came up with their strategy while we are lying on the beach in Greece like.
00:19:08:20 - 00:19:17:00
What they need to know is that this is the best strategy and we are giving it to them. So it's incredible.
00:19:17:02 - 00:19:40:11
Ibi
No, no, honestly, honestly it's incredible because, I mean, you're right. In a typical consulting world, for example, that's that's my background. Anyway, in a typical consulting world, the client doesn't need to know how much is going on behind the scenes, but they need to know that even though they even though they are reading a two page executive summary, that's that's all they're going to read.
00:19:40:11 - 00:20:07:05
Ibi
Realistically, it took months of effort to get to that two page executive summary. Right. And I fully acknowledge this about the teamwork as well. Thank you then. And one of the businesses I launched, you know, I had a fake AI agent and this was back in 2000 and I don't know, 21 or something. And at first, actually before it was an AI agent, I'm pretty sure it was my 15 year old cousin who was our customer service representative.
00:20:07:05 - 00:20:09:00
Ibi
But, you know, like, you know.
00:20:09:00 - 00:20:13:21
I didn't know that about you, you know, you keep surprising me.
00:20:13:23 - 00:20:33:02
Ibi
When you know, I think as long as the client is getting the services that they've paid for, right? And that you find a way to make the client comfortable, no matter how the team comes together, no matter what they do, no matter what, you know, tools or whatever they've used to get that, the fact is the work has been done and they're comfortable with it.
00:20:33:04 - 00:21:07:03
Ibi
And that, I think, is something special. Okay. Awesome. Let's let's change tack a little bit. Right. So we've got this whole space of pre, We've got this pre co-living space where you had corporate work that you were doing. And I've heard you also had nonprofit work that you were doing. Is there some kind of curve or some arc that you went through where first you were like okay, at this stage in my life, in my career, I'm more about the money.
00:21:07:03 - 00:21:10:04
Ibi
At this stage, I'm more about helping people. Why did it change like that?
00:21:10:07 - 00:21:19:00
Katia
No, no, it just came. I don't plan, I don't plan anything. It's like things come at me and I.
00:21:19:01 - 00:21:21:11
Take things as they come.
00:21:21:12 - 00:21:21:23
Ibi
Awesome.
00:21:21:23 - 00:21:23:19
00:21:23:21 - 00:21:56:12
Katia
No, it was more like the social work came more from, it it was just the situation at the moment. It was like the peak of the war in Syria. A lot of refugees coming in very, very unprepared, institutions and governments and all of that in the Balkans. And it just started with a very small, very like a small human effort to do something.
00:21:56:14 - 00:22:20:03
Katia
And I was not at all planning to to do it in a larger scale. But then the thing is that once you get involved, once you're like, oh, I can do something small to help, I will maybe donate, I don't know. So I don't remember what. But, then you get involved and then you understand the scale of it, and then you are like, oh no, this is big.
00:22:20:05 - 00:22:45:05
Katia
Oh, I have some contacts. Maybe I can help or I have, I can maybe organize this. Like it started so small just as something on the side. And then it totally consumed me to the point that I stopped working because I just couldn't work anymore. Like I couldn't focus on anything else anymore. It was. It was not healthy.
00:22:45:05 - 00:23:08:15
Katia
I'm not giving this as a good example. But the thing is that when you like, you just get sucked in because you see how much need there is and you see how little has been done, and you see how much is on the line and how many human lives are on the line. And then every day you think, okay, maybe I can do this little bit more, maybe I can do this little bit more.
00:23:08:15 - 00:23:36:07
Katia
Maybe I can, like, start having ideas. And then before you know it, you are full blown in the middle of the organization of everything. You are the contact point of a lot of people. You're suddenly like the centerpiece of a massive project, which was not planned, which just happened like that. And then, yeah, escalated also to other countries and stuff like that.
00:23:36:07 - 00:23:59:04
Katia
So it was not official. I didn't even have, so we were like a group of people that met randomly on some sort of like, coordination meeting. I don't know what, I was not supposed to go to this meeting. I just went to the point to drop off some donations, and my idea was like, oh, just drop off the donations and go.
00:23:59:06 - 00:24:18:16
Katia
But then they asked me, oh, there is this meeting, do you want to join? I was like, yeah, sure. What is it about? It's just people thinking about how we can help at that time. Like, yeah, sure. And then I met some people there, which to this day are some of my best friends. And then we just clicked very quickly.
00:24:18:16 - 00:24:41:05
Katia
We started bouncing ideas. We started, okay, we can do this. We can do that. Like a lot of us with very different backgrounds as well. And we just like, took it as a common project. And it escalated to a point. We didn't have any official, we didn't have an NGO, we didn't have any official entity behind this.
00:24:41:05 - 00:24:47:14
We were just like a group of newly met friends.
00:24:47:16 - 00:25:10:02
Katia
And suddenly it, when it started also, we started at the time, it was a Facebook group, first for us and then for some other close friends of ours that could possibly help and get involved. And then suddenly the group was thousands of people. It just. Yeah, it just escalated to that point.
00:25:10:05 - 00:25:20:06
Ibi
Do you feel like the skills that you gained from running your nomad business and in your corporate world, they were the ones that helped you transition into this and made you.
00:25:20:08 - 00:25:56:06
Katia
Yeah, for sure, because there was a lot of also logistical coordination from distance with different organizations, with different camps and points. It was mainly in Greece, Turkey and Bulgaria. So for sure, yeah, for sure that helped. A lot of people actually, a lot of the volunteers were nomads. And even when I went to Lesbos at the time on the front lines, a lot of people were just like, nomads at the time traveling to Lesbos.
00:25:56:08 - 00:26:27:00
Katia
And then the whole thing happened. And then they saw it firsthand, and they decided to stay because they're nomads and they're flexible and they don't have plans, and they just decided to stay and help. So it kind of also bridged the two worlds a little bit. And I guess also for me, on the emotional side, this was something missing because I was always feeling like I live a schizophrenic life, like my corporate life with the big clients and projects and stuff like that.
00:26:27:00 - 00:26:56:23
Katia
They wouldn't, they don't know that I'm a nomad, and the nomad people were usually, as I said, like people with much smaller scale, freelancers trying to make it out there, trying to get started. So I kind of always felt like the two worlds have nothing in common, and they are two completely separate compartments. And then the volunteer work for the first time kind of bridged.
00:26:56:23 - 00:27:11:05
Katia
And for the first time also showed me how important it is to have a community and to have people that understand you and understand what you are doing. And that was really nice and helpful. Yeah.
00:27:11:08 - 00:27:35:08
Ibi
Okay. Okay, I love this. I want to get your opinion on something because one of the, one of the key things that I recommend to all of my clients is that being a nomad is about that shift in mindset of thinking globally, that you can have opportunities anywhere in the world, that you can think in a different way that gives you different perspectives.
00:27:35:08 - 00:27:59:03
Ibi
Because you've seen different ways of living, different ways of being, you've seen different ways. The operating procedures in Eastern Europe is so different from Western Europe. Forget the other side of the world. Yeah. So how do you think the skills that people gain as nomads, just in the act of becoming a nomad or being a nomad, how does that help them later on in their life?
00:27:59:03 - 00:28:01:08
Ibi
I want people to know that it's not just.
00:28:01:08 - 00:28:26:10
Katia
Amazing, it's it's a shift. It's so I mean, it teaches you to be so flexible and so agile, like you can adapt to any situation at some point. Like especially we've been talking about that with friends a lot. Like when you when you are a nomad, there are so many good things, but also there are a lot of difficulties.
00:28:26:10 - 00:28:39:18
Katia
And in the moment, the good thing is that in the moment, the challenges and the difficulties, they don't look like something too bad or too crazy. Because even with the challenges, your life is still.
00:28:39:18 - 00:28:50:18
Better than the life of most people. But then when you look back, you're like, oh my God, I did this. Like what? And then you're like, oh, can you.
00:28:50:18 - 00:28:56:00
Ibi
Give us an example? I know this from myself, but give me an example of what it comes to for you.
00:28:56:02 - 00:29:14:20
Katia
I don't know, sometimes we like, we sit with people and we talk about random things and like, random stories come up and, you know, when you are with other nomads, you're like, oh, yeah. And then I went alone to India and hitchhiked, I don't know where. And they're like, yeah, like it's totally normal.
00:29:14:20 - 00:29:23:12
And people tell the stories. But then when you say that in the context with people that don't do that and they're like, what did you do?
00:29:23:17 - 00:29:26:04
Ibi
You went alone and hitchhiked in India.
00:29:26:04 - 00:29:39:02
And you're like, oh, it's just not normal. Okay. Like in my circles it's normal. And a lot of people did it and it kind of like brings the level down. So like, you wouldn't.
00:29:39:02 - 00:29:54:20
Katia
Think that it's something uncommon, but actually it is. For most people it's like super stressful and a lot of situations like that where you did things that in the moment you didn't realize are totally crazy. And then when you start telling the stories, you.
00:29:54:20 - 00:29:59:03
See the reaction of people and they're like, what the hell.
00:29:59:05 - 00:30:33:03
Katia
Happened? And it teaches you, actually, that you can find yourself in any situation and find the way out of it. It gives you a lot of confidence as well. You are less scared. After you are less scared of starting businesses, of failing, of doing things. You know, there is this famous joke on Instagram that, the nomad is interviewing for a corporate job and the corporate person is like, oh, this is a very stressful job, do you think you can handle it?
00:30:33:03 - 00:30:35:06
And the guy's, like.
00:30:35:08 - 00:30:37:18
Katia
I got robbed on the street in India, I can handle this.
00:30:37:19 - 00:30:44:09
Like, that's fine. Kind of, you know.
00:30:44:11 - 00:31:09:04
Katia
I think it gives you so many skills. Most of it is to not be afraid and to kind of have the confidence that whatever happens, you will find a way. Because we don't always think about that in a work situation. When you're in front of your computer and something happens at work and you panic and like, oh my God, what am I.
00:31:09:04 - 00:31:11:22
Katia
Going to do. But when you are.
00:31:11:22 - 00:31:12:15
Physically.
00:31:12:15 - 00:31:17:17
Katia
Somewhere and something happens.
00:31:17:19 - 00:31:20:07
Katia
You don't have the choice. One way or another.
00:31:20:07 - 00:31:25:09
You have to get out of it. You have to, one way or another, find the solution.
00:31:25:11 - 00:31:27:06
Ibi
So there's no way out.
00:31:27:07 - 00:31:31:05
Katia
There is no way out.
00:31:31:07 - 00:31:55:03
Ibi
I love it, I love it. I mean, no, you're right. It gives you, it gives you the savoir faire that you can go and do anything, right, to go anywhere. Once you've handled things like, you know, in other countries where you don't speak the language, where you just have to find a way to push yourself through it.
00:31:55:03 - 00:32:20:03
Ibi
In other contexts, it's it's invaluable. I want to draw the connection between your corporate world and the social work that you did. The reason is, is because I think a lot of people will be listening to podcasts, they'll be listening to digital nomad things, and they'll be like, oh, these these guys are all capitalists. They don't care about anything.
00:32:20:03 - 00:32:38:22
Ibi
And they're just, you know, ruining the world with the jet setting. And they're focusing so much on, I don't know, being in tech and don't they know the environmental impact that they have? They feel like one excludes the other. What would you say to these kinds of people?
00:32:39:00 - 00:33:12:18
Katia
I would say that there are many different ways to care, and it's very easy to see the travel right, the carbon footprint if you fly. But all the things that you can do that people can also do at home, but don't do, it's different. And it's not okay to focus only on one aspect, because I think, first of all, the carbon footprint can also be done mindfully.
00:33:12:18 - 00:33:39:07
Katia
And a lot of nomads are now not flying or only flying very long distances once or twice a year, and once they go to one place, they travel around as much as possible before they take the next big flight. So a lot of people are mindful about that. But also there are so many other ways that you can contribute and offset this rather than, you know, people who have sedentary lives.
00:33:39:07 - 00:34:04:15
Katia
They also go on vacations. They don't do the rest, like a lot of them. And I would say it's just a different lifestyle. But okay, I have a feeling, the way you live it, you can still make your choices. You can still make it sustainable. You know.
00:34:04:17 - 00:34:11:11
Ibi
How do nomads benefit the places that they go to?
00:34:11:13 - 00:34:36:18
Katia
I can't talk about all nomads, but they can. A lot of them do. And a lot of them can benefit the places that they go to. A lot of nomads are doing actually volunteer work. Volunteer work can also be done online, by the way, and you can help when you can do things. And I'm doing that at the moment because I cannot do physically anymore, not for social work, but for other things.
00:34:36:20 - 00:35:10:03
Katia
And the difference between nomads and tourists is they stay in the place longer, you understand the place better. You can do volunteer work if you want, but you can also contribute in other ways. You can support small businesses. You bring money from outside the country. You spend your money there. You can choose not to go to Starbucks, but to go to the little coffee shop of the local person that opened a little coffee shop in the little town.
00:35:10:05 - 00:35:37:05
Katia
You can just make more mindful choices. And at least in the co-living cases, I think the contact also with the locals and the fact that you show people that don't have access to this world, you bring something from outside and you also enrich them culturally and you become friends with them. Very often in small towns and villages.
00:35:37:06 - 00:36:06:06
Katia
It's people that have never met foreigners in their lives. So just the fact that they can interact with you and exchange stories and hear about your travels and just, kind of see that the world is bigger, it inspires them also to do things in a different way and to live their life in a different way. It's sometimes very difficult to explain to, I don't know, to someone that doesn't have.
00:36:06:08 - 00:36:34:18
Katia
Either the example or the education or the opportunity to be worried about, I don't know, climate change or things like that. But then when they see the example, when they see that, oh, someone that was born on the other side of the world is coming to my village. They like my village and they take care of my village and they recycle and they want to clean the marshes, and they want to do things this way.
00:36:34:18 - 00:36:55:10
Katia
Like if they care about my village, then I should care also a bit more about my village and also about the world. So those are little shifts, but they for sure they make a difference. And I see it here as well.
00:36:55:12 - 00:37:00:06
Ibi
What's your current job? What do you currently do?
00:37:00:07 - 00:37:01:11
Katia
Like most.
00:37:01:13 - 00:37:16:00
Dreaded question. You know, every time I travel, when you meet people that are outside of this remote work circle, the first thing they ask is, where are you from? Which I.
00:37:16:02 - 00:37:20:09
Katia
I know where I'm from, but I left my country so long ago that it's so hard to.
00:37:20:10 - 00:37:22:02
Like, put yourself in the box.
00:37:22:04 - 00:37:25:11
Katia
Second question is, where do you live? I don't know.
00:37:25:15 - 00:37:28:22
The third question is, what is your job? Oh my God.
00:37:29:00 - 00:37:33:04
Ibi
Like, don't worry. We'll understand. Oh digital nomad.
00:37:33:04 - 00:37:46:12
I know, it's so, so hard to explain. And then you almost come across as rude because it's not that I don't want to answer, it's just that it's not a one word answer. It'll take me half an hour. Are you sure you want to listen to that?
00:37:46:17 - 00:37:51:01
Ibi
If you could say it to the nomads as bluntly as you can.
00:37:51:02 - 00:37:56:18
Katia
I run Chateau co-living in France, which you probably know because it's famous.
00:37:56:20 - 00:38:02:04
And this is the answer I wanted. And I also.
00:38:02:04 - 00:38:08:00
Katia
Consult people who want to start their journey in the co-living industry.
00:38:08:02 - 00:38:14:22
Ibi
And do you like your job? Yes. What about it do you like?
00:38:15:00 - 00:38:28:23
Katia
So many things, but if I have to pick one, it's probably the interaction with a lot of very, very fascinating people like you.
00:38:29:01 - 00:38:48:23
Ibi
Katia, we actually, if only I had all of the time in the world to interview you. But I want to keep them under 30 minutes. I feel like I'm going to have to wrap this one up now, but it was an absolute pleasure. I just want to let you know I'm going to do a little spiel about Chateau co-living, so that the audience will get a chance to listen to it because they need to know about this place.
00:38:48:23 - 00:38:55:18
Ibi
I mean, to think I'm a bit in love with it too. Oh, I think you know that by now.
00:38:55:20 - 00:38:57:10
Ibi
But it was a pleasure. Thank you so much.
00:38:57:10 - 00:38:59:04
Thank you. Thank you so much.
